Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[Smellydog]

Muzzle loaders on ranges can continue, if they are smaller than 6.17mm they can continue on live quarry, if they are using shot they will need to change to bismuth, alternative shot to steel (with a cup)

There are no muzzleloaders worth a dam smaller than 6.17mm.
I can't hunt at a range.

For how many of us muzzleloaders there is why is there no exemption. It's a ridiculous arbitrary decision.

It's like communism gone nuts. " Please sir may I..." . " No, go away".
There is no balance whatsoever in all this.

 

[Tim.243]

Muzzle loaders on ranges can continue, if they are smaller than 6.17mm they can continue on live quarry, if they are using shot they will need to change to bismuth, alternative shot to steel (with a cup)

Terry do you work for BASC?

 

[Liveonce]

Because if the law states that you can only use lead cored ammo on a HO approved range, with facilities and procedures to capture and subsequently dispose of the lead, then using such ammo anywhere else would be a breach of the law.

You may still to buy such ammunition and its components.

Or put it another way. Yesterday I was testing 223 Lead cored FMJ ammo shooting into the sand butts run by a Scottish Government approved club. I could have decided to go deer stalking later on with that ammo and rifle. However the Deer Acts and Orders make it mandatory to use an expanding bullet and if on anything bigger than roe, a minimum of 80gn, and if I had done so I would have been breaking the law.

When the new laws come into play, everyone will have a choice. Obey them. Or choose to disobey, putting your FAC, deer stalking permissions etc etc at risk.

There is no such thing as a HO approved range only HO approved Clubs.

Ranges are no longer approved by any official body, the lead ban talks about registering ranges such that lead may continue to be used.

 

[Liveonce]

There are no muzzleloaders worth a dam smaller than 6.17mm.
I can't hunt at a range.

For how many of us muzzleloaders there is why is there no exemption. It's a ridiculous arbitrary decision.

It's like communism gone nuts. " Please sir may I..." . " No, go away".
There is no balance whatsoever in all this.

as ridiculous as this is for rifle ammo but not for clay cartridges.

The proposed ban really is badly thought through.

• Target shooting – no, but ammunition will need to be labelled by the manufacturer denoting it’s not for live quarry shooting, once the ban is in force.

 

[Smellydog]

as ridiculous as this is for rifle ammo but not for clay cartridges.

The proposed ban really is badly thought through.

• Target shooting – no, but ammunition will need to be labelled by the manufacturer denoting it’s not for live quarry shooting, once the ban is in force.

Oh, like the smoking kills labels on cigarettes

 

[Liveonce]

Oh, like the smoking kills labels on cigarettes

And rifle shooter are more law abiding then shotgun shooters.

All this to keep commercial game shooting “sustainable”

 

[jall55]

If nobody bothered during the so called transition period why should they care about the wad in the future? They won't.
Point above by @Basil H !

But lots and lots and lots of us did mate

 

[jall55]

Bioammo comment a few years ago, we as consumers should know what we are buying, just like when you buy food:-

It is surprising that companies with a long history in the ammunition market have not spent money developing new environmentally friendly materials. The solution they have provided has been to buy PVA wads from the plastic industry and say that since they disappear quickly they do not pollute, which is totally false. That you do not see it does not mean that it is not there, it has simply changed its state from solid to liquid.

For a material to be biodegradable, there must be an organism that can feed on it and transform it into biomass. No organism has evolved to date to be able to swallow synthetic polymers such as plastic or PVA and what is currently being done is to deceive the market and the end user, who are very lost in this matter.

In addition to contaminating, PVA wads have very poor ballistics and as soon as there is a humid environment (as in the UK) they weld to the wall of the plastic sheaths causing overpressures and accidents.

Why are there brands that use this material? Simply because they have no other solution or have invested in research.

Magic does not exist. There is no material that supports the pressure of a shot, that does not contaminate and that also disappears in hours.

For example, cardboard cartridges are an equally valid solution as Bioammo's since there are bacteria that feed on cellulose and convert it into biomass. How long does this phenomenon take to occur? It just depends on the level of bacteria. In Spain, for example, a Bioammo case at ground level could take up to 2 years to disappear. This process is greatly accelerated in environments with a higher level of bacteria such as a landfill or locations with more humidity. The exact time? As I have already told you, it depends on many factors.

The last question is the following: Do you want it not to be seen or not to contaminate?

Ramiro Guardiola

Director España, Portugal y Latinoamérica

CRO Spain, Portugal & Latin America

+34 619 24 25 73

Hidalgo

BioAmmo
Ctra. Santa Maria la Real de Nieva-Nava de la Asunción.

SG 342, km 44. Santa María la Real de Nieva.

40440 - Segovia, España.

Are you saying the Eley Pro Eco Wad does not breakdown then ?

 

[KimE]

Muzzle loaders on ranges can continue, if they are smaller than 6.17mm they can continue on live quarry, if they are using shot they will need to change to bismuth, alternative shot to steel (with a cup)

Make a cast bullet of backstop rimfire lead.

 

[Smellydog]

But lots and lots and lots of us did mate

Didn't make a jot of difference though did it and am I correct in believing last season was only when your shoot switched?

 

[jall55]

Didn't make a jot of difference though did it and am I correct in believing last season was only when your shoot switched?

Yes mate - tbh we were all very sceptical about steel

 

[HonestJohn]

Let’s be honest, if this gets drafted into law, there’s sees FA you can do about it, so align or take up fishing.

There should be more exemptions to protect entry into the sport, athletes (non elite) and vintage firearms. I do agree with that.

At this stage, if you really want to do something about it, set up a lobby group and put forward well documented evidence against the proposals. Don’t rely on shooting organisations to do this for you. Complaining about it here, will do zero, although it’s a great place to vent frustrations and disappointments of course. If the SD was a pub, there’d be some drunken fisticuffs I’m in no doubt, but it wouldn’t solve anything either.

 

[Smellydog]

Yes mate - tbh we were all very sceptical about steel

So what did you mean when you said...

But lots and lots and lots of us did mate

 

[jall55]

So what did you mean when you said...

We did swap to steel during the transition period - we are still in the voluntary transition period
In fairness BASC came out to several events we held in the couple of years prior and showcased steel - i was one of the lads that did not have a go at first as i was so against it - but after 3/4 events i had a go and discovered it was ok for clays - and so on it went

 

[Hambone]

BASC did not 'volunteer for a lead ban' so perhaps that hyperbole is where you are going wrong on this. BASC has consistently fought against lead bans since the 1980s and I have been part of that fight since the 2000s so please don't tell me different. The BASC bashing by a dozen or so people on this forum is mostly from ex-BASC members with various axes to grind, some going back decades. With that in mind, given your comments, are you a BASC member?

Are you a paid employee of BASC? If so do you in defence of BASC's dubious stance on this and other issues have more of an "axe to grind" with those of us lass than impressed with BASC's performance?

 

[Dunwaters]

Jesus H Christ.
30 more pages of crap where the only constant is that the more vociferous contributors can’t/ wont/ refuse to inform themselves or work work out solutions.
Has it occurred to any of you that you’re being a bunch of WLB’s?
Concentrate on solutions, and stop whinging.
I also nominate @Conor O'Gorman for the Nobel prize for persistence in the face of constant attacks on his organisation based on absolute ignorance of the facts and total refusal to accept scientific evidence.
Can you naysayers please stop whinging for long enough to read the proposals, digest the information and adapt?
Anyone with a bit of a backbone could work through this.
Please please stop whingeing, if you can’t stop the whingeing at least accept that YOU, rather than the restrictions, might be the bigger problem.
Adapt, improvise and overcome ladies, or just FRO, and let the rest of us do it in peace.
Your being irrational and doing us no favours.

 

[Smellydog]

We did swap to steel during the transition period - we are still in the voluntary transition period
In fairness BASC came out to several events we held in the couple of years prior and showcased steel - i was one of the lads that did not have a go at first as i was so against it - but after 3/4 events i had a go and discovered it was ok for clays - and so on it went

So it's early days and you and your team didn't adopt it straight away?
I'm confused now by your signals.
Who tried oh so very much?

 

[Nimrod1960]

I just don’t get the BASC bashing.
They have no power or formal place within the process. They can only seek to influence whatever tin eared politicians and civil service shirkers are running the process. Given that they must read the way things are going and hope to guide rather than simply object then be ignored, I think they do a pretty good job.

I have shot birds with steel , it works unless you are high bird (wounding range only) fanatic, in which case : tough!

I have shot deer including Sika with .243 solid , it worked.

Life is full of things we see as being wrong or unjust, baying at the moon will not change anything. It stems from an imperfect system of democracy which is after all the least worst alternative.

If you decide not to be a member of BASC its up to you. But I suspect without them we would have been lead free years ago for all calibers and activities. Better to have a members organisation with some credibility in the eyes of our masters than just having a load of shouty individuals.

So changes are happening, but only for shotguns and rifles over .24 , adapt and get on with it.

There you go , tin hat on , incoming !

 

[Smellydog]

Jesus H Christ.
30 more pages of crap where the only constant is that the more vociferous contributors can’t/ wont/ refuse to inform themselves or work work out solutions.
Has it occurred to any of you that you’re being a bunch of WLB’s?
Concentrate on solutions, and stop whinging.
I also nominate @Conor O'Gorman for the Nobel prize for persistence in the face of constant attacks on his organisation based on absolute ignorance of the facts and total refusal to accept scientific evidence.
Can you naysayers please stop whinging for long enough to read the proposals, digest the information and adapt?
Anyone with a bit of a backbone could work through this.
Please please stop whingeing, if you can’t stop the whingeing at least accept that YOU, rather than the restrictions, might be the bigger problem.
Adapt, improvise and overcome ladies, or just FRO, and let the rest of us do it in peace.

I thought you wanted to help earlier!
Did you read my reply to you?

If you feel discomfort vacate the chat.

I am about to place an order on some Hornady flex tip mono for my 3030 to try.
Is that ok?

 

[enfieldspares]

One of the issues being that steel shot was wounding but not killing outright, another plastic wads causing potential issues if consumed by cattle. The Scottish rules would have made far more sense but we are where we are now.

The present updated New Zealand Fish and Game rules would have made great sense AND could have been transposed word for word into UK law. I asked why BASC did not support proposing that. I was told "it wasn't suitable for the UK". AllI can surmise is it didn't fit the model of "big bag" commercial shooting.