Digital Scopes and Thermal for Deer Stalking

[Dan Newcombe]

I prefer to shoot deer in daylight hours. However it is necessary for me to shoot at night with the legal measures in place to cull the required numbers and to achieve acceptable damage levels. This has become more so over the past few years largely due to renewable energy projects and other people being active in the forest during daylight hours. I work in a remote location, 25 years ago I could go a whole week without seeing another person. Now I see more people than deer.

Almost like, it’s less dangerous because there are fewer people at night. Shocker

 

[rem284]

Almost like, it’s less dangerous because there are fewer people at night. Shocker

Well, everything can be dangerous, it's all about how the operator conducts the activity. The risk factors are increased when it comes to extraction. So this is where common sense(not always common) has to be applied. Some of the best nights we have had is where we selected deer that would require little time, effort and risk to extract. The big advantage is there are atleast 2 people on site whilst night shooting. Normally if we are in daylight hours we work alone. This increases difficulties in the event of something going wrong, especially in the afternoon/evening outings because by the time someone gets on site to check and assist it's will be dark. We use a robust lone working system all the time, even when working together

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Sorry rem. I was referring to an earlier post where it was claimed shooting at night was dangerous because you can’t see as much peripheral view and for some reason can’t assess backstops.

At the end of the day it’s all about selection and care

 

[slider]

You are also forgetting the legalities of shooting at midnight. Legal shooting time is one hour before sunrise and one after sunset.

Even in the very far North of Scotland shooting deer at midnight is illegal. On 21st June - the longest day at Dunbeath Head Sunrise is at 04.06 and sunset at 22.25.

Nature Scot do issue night shooting licenses, but they are very specific to particular pieces of land and particular individuals shooting on that land. Just because you have a night license for one forestry block doesn’t mean that this transfers

Getting a night licence is easy, I had them returned the same day as application and have yet to hear of one being refused.

 

[rem284]

Up to date I have only used optical scopes for daylight shooting and night shooting with the aid of a lamp when night shooting deer.

I have never used a thermal scope, so can't really comment

I have used night vision scopes when shooting foxes and found there are advantages and disadvantages. They take a bit more time to get the settings correct before the shot. Whiteout can happen if the circumstances are not good. The advantages are the target is less likely to be aware of your presence if used in conjunction with a thermal spotter. It's more covert so less people will be able to see anyone is controlling animals that they might not agree with.

I see technology as an aid that can be used where it is an advantage and may make us more effective

 

[purdeydog]

I haven’t used one for stalking. I do have two NV/thermals. Certainly wouldn’t go on a paid stalk or take a client out with one. If a client came with one I’d wouldn’t be keen on it.

Touching on the other thread which I haven’t commented on. I have no issues shooting a deer at longer ranges with my optical scope but wouldn’t with a digital scope for sure.

 

[Steve O'shea]

A tad judgemental and bordering snobbery i’d say.
First thing you have failed to acknowledge is everybody’s land, population, landowners requirements, attitude, abilty, time, budget ect is different, not everyone lives in the utopian world you speak of!
If you came armed with only a glass scope at the tree plantation i shoot you would either get bored or binned off because you wouldn’t see any deer through your scope or binos let alone shoot one.
Busy with workforce and machinery by day and dog walkers in the evening the only chance you will have to nail a deer is in the last few minutes of legal light, thats if they decide to come out that early. I watch from a vantage point and see them slip in
through the thermal and its as if they have an inbuilt clock, no amount of field craft will help in that situation.
Likewise the estate i shoot, my brief is to shoot every muntjac i see and keep the roe in check therefore i need to be as efficient as possible, i’m not just out for a wander to appreciate the wildlife of an evening. A digital scope helps shooting in dense woodland as the usable light is reduced even further under the canopy.

Regarding your comment “If its too dark to see a deer with good glass its too dark to take a safe shot” im afraid thats absolute nonsense and smacks of someone thats never used a digital for stalking, in the dying few minutes of a light on a clear evening a decent digital scope will allow you to ID, sex a deer and more importantly see way beyond it to determine a safe backstop, dog walkers etc.
Take a look at the images below in the last few minutes of legal light you can clearly see the sex of this pair and the barn owl on the post! the last photo you can see the telegraph pole and the wires, its 400yds away, tell us why with that level of detail shooting with a digital scope isn’t safe at last knockings? have you ever looked through an Alpex in low light before?
Whats the difference between shooting a deer in the last moments of useable light with a glass scope and 15/20mins later with a digital? i’ll tell you, 15/20 mins thats all because if you get a runner you will still be tracking it in the dark, you’ll still be gralloching it in the dark and you’ll still be hauling it back to transport in the dark with either scope.

Nothing wrong with being a purist but it doesn’t give you grounds to patronise others that are competent using modern methods.

View attachment 422661View attachment 422662

Well said , since using a good quality digital scope and a good quality thermal spotter, I've never felt so confident in the safety of taking a shot in the dark on foxes and rabbits etc. Same would apply for a deer in last legal light situations.
I know it would be great if the deer came out sooner when it was nice and bright but on my permissions, they rarely ever do due to farm activitiy etc.
The view of the backstop and surrounding area is excellent in the scope, and the thermal can confirm theres no other livestock or people within the area too. Glass is king in good light, but there's definitely nothing unsafe about using digital in my mind, as the light falls off, it's by far the safest way.

 

[Tim.243]

Well said , since using a good quality digital scope and a good quality thermal spotter, I've never felt so confident in the safety of taking a shot in the dark on foxes and rabbits etc. Same would apply for a deer in last legal light situations.
I know it would be great if the deer came out sooner when it was nice and bright but on my permissions, they rarely ever do due to farm activitiy etc.
The view of the backstop and surrounding area is excellent in the scope, and the thermal can confirm theres no other livestock or people within the area too. Glass is king in good light, but there's definitely nothing unsafe about using digital in my mind, as the light falls off, it's by far the safest way.

The backstops are the same on your ground regardless of if it is night or day also I find in the legal dark your ranges are shorter as you can cut off a good number of yards. What I find works very well is where the fallow follow a trail/path that works well as the same thing in daylight does not work.
It is almost like they have a imprint of the shapes surrounding them (I am sure they do) but the dark takes that away to some extent.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

The irony is a certain person on this says we should all move with the times and go lead free, actively lobbying it and his actions make me think he's secretly an anti yet won't go with the times with the rest of the kit...

So 'purists' must now use a wooden stocked sporter in an ancient cartridge with a 1950s scope on top but the newest gucci lead free ammo at 100 yards broadside only otherwise you can't do it... and if you don't see deer, its because you're crap at everything else

Jog on @Heym SR20

 

[Nickb]

At the end of the day use what suits you , got nowt to do with anyone else.

Get out and enjoy your shooting for however long it may last.

 

[Happy stalker]

At the end of the day use what suits you , got nowt to do with anyone else.

Get out and enjoy your shooting for however long it may last.

Absolutely!!!

 

[Heym SR20]

The irony is a certain person on this says we should all move with the times and go lead free, actively lobbying it and his actions make me think he's secretly an anti yet won't go with the times with the rest of the kit...

So 'purists' must now use a wooden stocked sporter in an ancient cartridge with a 1950s scope on top but the newest gucci lead free ammo at 100 yards broadside only otherwise you can't do it... and if you don't see deer, its because you're crap at everything else

Jog on @Heym SR20

You really are a hateful person aren’t you. If you nothing nice to say, keep your vile mouth shut.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You really are a hateful person aren’t you. If you nothing nice to say, keep your vile mouth shut.

Nothing vile there? Not quite following? Thats all truths from things YOU have said...

Id also disagree with hateful but you know what they say about opinions

 

[Callumno112]

Each to their own. I’m a recreational stalker with a busy job. I’m tempted to get a Alpex 4K to maximise the time I have. There’s a lot of great reviews and I’ve heard so much praise first hand.

 

[Mike1979]

At the end of the day use what suits you , got nowt to do with anyone else.

Get out and enjoy your shooting for however long it may last.

Excuse me....we should not enjoy any of it. Suffering for the purpose of conservation...end of story

 

[Nickb]

Each to their own. I’m a recreational stalker with a busy job. I’m tempted to get a Alpex 4K to maximise the time I have. There’s a lot of great reviews and I’ve heard so much praise first hand.

You won't regret it for last hour shooting.

 

[sauer]

I've a zulu on a .223 and love it ...
But took roe at last knocking last night with my .25 cal and a leica amplus 6 .....
Lot to be said for good ole decent glass sight pic .

Paul.

 

[Optics world]

Over the years I have been a great advocate for digital day and nightvision but I have never claimed that it was better than day glass for deer stalking in fact I have pretty much been against standalone thermal for stalking deer for a number of reasons.

1. Species ID and Sex ID, condition and age ID is almost impossible even with high end thermal.

2 Thermal bleed in thermal often doesn't show what's in front of the deer making it hard to see if it's a safe sot or not. Often thermal gives you a false sense of confidence

3 With Thermal people will shoot in conditions they wouldn't normally such as in fog etc. And that might not be safe.

4. Even high end thermal struggles with environmentals and detection of safe back stops etc.


So that just a few of the downsides of thermal as a standalone scope but the technology has come along way but many of these concerns still exist.

Digital day vision in colour etc has also come a long way, better battery life, lighter units and 4k technology for example has made it more accessible for the stalking market, along with the law being changed in Nov 23. Stalkers can now record their shooting, document their misses and learn real time what went wrong and also keep a video of the deer they shot when they had their successes.

That's all well and good but has digital come enough of a way to surpass clear glass, the long and short of it is that in some ways it has and others it hasn't.

Most digital Scopes come with laser rangefinders and built in bullet drop calculators now, so to that respect it has surpassed the use of day scopes. Ok, you say but we have that in the Burris Eliminators, Burniston XTR, the Swarovski DS, yes you do, but, look at the price of those compared to your average day/night vision scope, and there's another benefit of digital, you have done with a day's stalking and you now wanna go foxing after dark, just clamp an IR torch on, switch to nightvision and away you go.
Now in this respect to day glass the digital Scopes are in someways a game changer, yes no need for to carry extra kit like a rangefinder etc, but, you cannot beat the reliability of day glass, the clarity daytime with day glass and the experience of day glass, well not yet that is.

With the new range of 4k scopes coming out many stalkers are gonna be suckered into throwing money into this new tech, and they should but only if it meets the needs of you.

I have heard the phrase "Game Changer" thrown about a lot these days and I have used it a couple of times myself, but, that phrase hasn't been used properly.

There is a big hype over this new Hik Micro Alpex 4K Lite scope and how this is a game changer. It's not ! and for guys on here it is not a stalking scope or a centrefire one, please don't think it is. The eye relief needed to see the screen properly is too close for a CF rifle even a light recoil one. Even Hik say it's for airgun and rimfire ONLY.

It is a good scope for £650 compared to the tech that was available 3 years ago, but there is better and cheaper on the market that you can use for deer stalking on a centrefire.

On a couple of recent videos I have done you will get a good idea of what to expect from a digital day scope.

Here is one

In that video I have been as honest as I possibly can . Also check out the Sika stalk one too.

As stalkers we are always held to a higher standard when it comes to personal ethics and morality, and rightly so. We have all been forced into a world of deer management, not just as a recreational sport but as an obligation, and because of this everyone of us find ourselves having to shoot more deer than we would normally do and for some it is more deer than what they would like.

Due to this we find ourselves in a world where we are looking to move away from traditional glass and stalk. The need for shorter stalks and long range shooting has become the norm, we are looking to push that extra hour in the morning and night to the max, and in doing so we are asking for the equipment to help. Thermal spotters in the pocket are normal now, before it was just us commercial forest managers that used them, digital Scopes with Night vision tech, even thermal Scopes are becoming a common sight on a recreational stalkers rifle these days.

The game is changing, the tech is NOT game changing.

But hey check out my videos, makes you think about what the future is .

ATB

DT

digital is fine for stallking until the day you forget to charge it up, dead batteries is the new forgot my bolt or magazine

 

[Mike1979]

digital is fine for stallking until the day you forget to charge it up, dead batteries is the new forgot my bolt or magazine

You soon learn. My scopes get charged after every outing or before the next and every 3 months if not used + spare batteries

 

[kenbro]

digital is fine for stallking until the day you forget to charge it up, dead batteries is the new forgot my bolt or magazine

No problem to carry a small spare glass scope in your bag if you can’t remember to charge batteries or carry spares!
Having said that, if your that forgetful you’ll probably forget to carry a spare glass scope
Ken.