Use of shotguns on deer under Deer Act 1991 in England and Wales to become de facto illegal under lead shot ban.

[Dunwaters]

Whilst I agree , and having been on several driven days on the continent, there is a massive animal welfare issue here……….. who’s got the dog and ground to actively track the runners?

I can count on 1 hand the amount of people with dogs who can have the experience to do that effectively, plus UK law does not support the crossing of boundaries without permission.

So really the whole idea is a no go!

What we’re doing is clearly not enough and not working. Drives work elsewhere, there’s no logical reason why they wouldn’t work in the UK.

 

[Leec6.5]

What we’re doing is clearly not enough and not working. Drives work elsewhere, there’s no logical reason why they wouldn’t work in the UK.

Yes, they do work 100% but what’s the use if you haven’t got the infrastructure to support it?

No driven birthday would go ahead without picking up team, so therefore why would you have a driven Deer day with no tracking team?

 

[HonestJohn]

Yes, they do work 100% but what’s the use if you haven’t got the infrastructure to support it?

No driven birthday would go ahead without picking up team, so therefore why would you have a driven Deer day with no tracking team?

Everything needs to start somewhere. In Germany they probably didn’t have tracking dogs and picker uppers before someone came up with the idea of driven deer/boar management. I reckon, as soon as someone starts doing it in the UK, the infrastructure will come swiftly.

As a PS. I doubt we will have driven deer, more like ‘moved’ or disturbed deer drives where in boundaries a few well placed highseats are waiting. If that could be done across a few estates, it could be very effective.

But it will never happen as no one wants to share

 

[Leec6.5]

Everything needs to start somewhere. In Germany they probably didn’t have tracking dogs and picker uppers before someone came up with the idea of driven deer/boar management. I reckon, as soon as someone starts doing it in the UK, the infrastructure will come swiftly.

As a PS. I doubt we will have driven deer, more like ‘moved’ or disturbed deer drives where in boundaries a few well placed highseats are waiting. If that could be done across a few estates, it could be very effective.

But it will never happen as no one wants to share

It’s been tracking dogs in Germany since 1894 the KBGS was formed in 1912. I know that because I was a member up until this year so yeah that sort of poo poo is that answer doesn’t it?

So in reality there has been tracking dogs in Germany and Europe for well over 100 years we are in the Stone Age!

 

[Dunwaters]

Yes, they do work 100% but what’s the use if you haven’t got the infrastructure to support it?

No driven birthday would go ahead without picking up team, so therefore why would you have a driven Deer day with no tracking team?

You can carry on “ what iffing “ if you like, but there’s nothing revolutionary about the suggestion, roe were traditionally shot by driving, hares still are.
There is a definite learning curve, you’ve lost skills that you used to have, but those skills exist elsewhere, you don’t have to start from scratch.

 

[kenbro]

What we’re doing is clearly not enough and not working. Drives work elsewhere, there’s no logical reason why they wouldn’t work in the UK.

They used to work in the 1970s when we went on them for roe.
KB.

 

[Leec6.5]

You can carry on “ what iffing “ if you like, but there’s nothing revolutionary about the suggestion, roe were traditionally shot by driving, hares still are.
There is a definite learning curve, you’ve lost skills that you used to have, but those skills exist elsewhere, you don’t have to start from scratch.

Christ Almighty, there’s people who can’t actually shoot a Deer properly when it’s stationary let alone when they’re moving!

If you think this is the solution to the Deer problem really you need to sit down and give yourself a good talking to!

The only way you’re going to control their numbers treating them like muntjac, shoot them out of hand male or female 12 months of the year then you’ll get numbers down until then you’re all ****ing in the wind and getting wet legs!

 

[Grand Slam]

Everything needs to start somewhere. In Germany they probably didn’t have tracking dogs and picker uppers before someone came up with the idea of driven deer/boar management. I reckon, as soon as someone starts doing it in the UK, the infrastructure will come swiftly.

As a PS. I doubt we will have driven deer, more like ‘moved’ or disturbed deer drives where in boundaries a few well placed highseats are waiting. If that could be done across a few estates, it could be very effective.

But it will never happen as no one wants to share

This is happening in various areas of the UK already. Have a look at Deer Cast, they did a deer movement day earlier in the year.

 

[Grand Slam]

Not with shotguns I will add though. Just gently moving deer across the estates towards waiting rifles in high seats.

 

[HonestJohn]

Not with shotguns I will add though. Just gently moving deer across the estates towards waiting rifles in high seats.

That’s really good to hear! If they did that with fallow across a few adjoining block estates down south, I reckon the populations would be under check much faster, and without having to resort to out of season and night shooting

 

[Heym SR20]

Everything needs to start somewhere. In Germany they probably didn’t have tracking dogs and picker uppers before someone came up with the idea of driven deer/boar management. I reckon, as soon as someone starts doing it in the UK, the infrastructure will come swiftly.

As a PS. I doubt we will have driven deer, more like ‘moved’ or disturbed deer drives where in boundaries a few well placed highseats are waiting. If that could be done across a few estates, it could be very effective.

But it will never happen as no one wants to share

When I started stalking in about 1996, nobody even considered using dogs for deer stalking. Woodland stalking was considered to be a very “odd“ pastime.

Nowadays stalking without easy access to a dog is seen as irresponsible.

 

[Leec6.5]

This is happening in various areas of the UK already. Have a look at Deer Cast, they did a deer movement day earlier in the year.

You actually watch that drivel?

 

[Grand Slam]

You actually watch that drivel?

Not usually to be fair. Was interested in the mechanics of the movement day in itself.

 

[Leec6.5]

Not usually to be fair. Was interested in the mechanics of the movement day in itself.

I’ve been on a massive drive hunt with probably 100 rifles all in seats, ran like a dream from getting guns in place to the dog work tracking after.

To which I was one of the dog handlers

 

[Dunwaters]

Christ Almighty, there’s people who can’t actually shoot a Deer properly when it’s stationary let alone when they’re moving!

If you think this is the solution to the Deer problem really you need to sit down and give yourself a good talking to!

The only way you’re going to control their numbers treating them like muntjac, shoot them out of hand male or female 12 months of the year then you’ll get numbers down until then you’re all ****ing in the wind and getting wet legs!

Why is it that nothing you’re not already doing will work in the UK?
Driving roe deer to shotguns works, I’ve seen it and I’ve done it. It would work for muntjac, CWD and probably Sika hinds too.
Current Deer management practices are not working, if they did we wouldn’t have the problems we have.
This situation has developed on your watch and mine, we ignored the evidence for as long as we could, you may carry on as you have been if you want. I’m happy to at least consider changes.

 

[Leec6.5]

Why is it that nothing you’re not already doing will work in the UK?
Driving roe deer to shotguns works, I’ve seen it and I’ve done it. It would work for muntjac, CWD and probably Sika hinds too.
Current Deer management practices are not working, if they did we wouldn’t have the problems we have.
This situation has developed on your watch and mine, we ignored the evidence for as long as we could, you may carry on as you have been if you want. I’m happy to at least consider changes.

There are ways of solving the problem but people don’t have the stomach to do it. That’s what it all comes down to. There are those who can and there are those who can’t and unfortunately most of those we think they can most certainly can’t.!

 

[devon deer stalker]

You actually watch that drivel?

I agree, watched a couple and spent my time elsewhere.

I have been involved in moving deer, in a fenced area, just rifles, and it was very effective until the fallow deer wised up and sat tight in brambles.

We used shotguns once, it was fine under 30 yards but it was soon stopped when it was witnessed a guy shooting over 30 yards only used in the line of people 'moving' the deer.

 

[20-250]

When I started stalking in about 1996, nobody even considered using dogs for deer stalking. Woodland stalking was considered to be a very “odd“ pastime.

I don't know what you base that on, but I started stalking in 1988 and assure you that several woodland stalkers at that time had a dog when woodland stalking. Odd? Well, I have news for you- the public think we're all exactly that.

 

[Heym SR20]

I don't know what you base that on, but I started stalking in 1988 and assure you that several woodland stalkers at that time had a dog when woodland stalking. Odd? Well, I have news for you- the public think we're all exactly that.

My own experience is what I based my comments on. Most of my stalking was in Scotland although I lived in South Oxfordshire. I did shoot and work on farms in those days. I also read Agriculture at Reading. None of my fellow students, nor any of the guns on the local shoots ever stalked, nor was there any stalking in the local area. There were very few deer about - no Roe, no muntjac. There were a few fallow down in Stonor Deer Park. Admittedly it was pre internet days, so what happened elsewhere was a complete mystery.

 

[Freeforester]

I agree, watched a couple and spent my time elsewhere.

I have been involved in moving deer, in a fenced area, just rifles, and it was very effective until the fallow deer wised up and sat tight in brambles.

We used shotguns once, it was fine under 30 yards but it was soon stopped when it was witnessed a guy shooting over 30 yards only used in the line of people 'moving' the deer.

The problem being the incompetence or indiscipline of the Gun, and not the exercise itself.

I shot my first deer with a rifle a couple of seasons after my first with a shotgun (12g sxs using Eley 36g AAA cartridge) and our maximum range was 20 yards, any roe passing beyond that range was simply not shot at. It takes very little in terms of time to determine a point some 20yards away, and if the roe passed within that mark it was fair game, but if not it was left. It was in my second season with the rifle that I got my first dog, back in the Eighties. A collie springer cross, and a very able and intelligent all round dog he was.