Bolt Handle Failure during live fire - Remi 700 XCR

[saddler]

That really won't cover my costs - now I'm really fooked off!!

...nope, I meant that was what the ammo would have cost them, they'll retail it at £150

 

[the_cunctator]

Additionally, my missus is a London Goldsmith's Company metal worker. She's examined the failed joint and says it's 'dry', i.e, poorly fluxed or not fabricated at the right temp.

 

[the_cunctator]

...nope, I meant that was what the ammo would have cost them, they'll retail it at £150

Yeah, sorry mate, understood. I'm just not happy that while it may be 'worth' £150 retail, in reality they are only forking a derisory amount out as a 'sorry'. I shouldn't expect any more I guess!

 

[Ronin]

Additionally, my missus is a London Goldsmith's Company metal worker. She's examined the failed joint and says it's 'dry', i.e, poorly fluxed or not fabricated at the right temp.

There's the reason for the fail then.


Should be a simple warranty job.

 

[deerwarden]

All due respect,t you do not have to accept a repair, the rifle is not fit for "the purpose it was intended for". You paid a huge amount of money for something to go catastrophically wrong, putting yourself at risk of a severe injury as well. As an engineer, looking at that picture does suggest a poor/inadequate joint was at fault, as a retailer I also know the consumers rights and protection against being sold faulty goods, guarantee's are there for the customer, however he or she can demand the replacement or refund of the goods or money. I have a 700 as does my stalker mate, both are accurate rifles, but seeing that I would not buy another and I paid less for my Sauer 202 than you did, and its engineered together not soldered. Deerwarden.

 

[User00003]

Sale of Goods act - if not performing according to the specifications and expectations, the RETAILER is required to replace or reimburse! NOT the distributor or wholesaler..

 

[smullery]

Deerwarden,I think you will find that it's the bolt that wasn't fit for purpose, not the rifle. Supplier has the right to settle only that part, not the whole system, AKA rifle.Same as buying a car and complaining about the radio or tyres. Supplier has the right to rectify those, not just the customer rejecting the whole car.Now, if the supplier choses not to rectify the bolt......Stan

 

[User00003]

ah, but 'just another bolt' won't necessarily fit that particular action unless full re-headspacing measurements and corrections/adjustments are made. who would take charge of that responsibility?

 

[buckup]

I use silver solder a fair bit, and while it's a fine jointing medium, I wouldn't trust it in a place like a bolt handle. Solder is a molten metal glue which bonds to the surface of the metal to be joined. A weld actually fuses with the base metal, steel rod is turned liquid along with the base metal allowing them to run together as one. Much much stronger, although not as flexible as a soldered or brazed joint. Flexibility is not something I would personally look for in a bolt to bolt handle joint. I wonder now, how many other makers use this technique, I'm sure the members here will tell me.

 

[smullery]

PKL,You will find that isn't so in the rifle in question. No match of bolt to action of a comparable length as all are within acceptable tolerance. Stan

 

[deerwarden]

With regard to the sale of goods, for some reason cars do not fall into the same condition as does other items, when I was in the retail business if a part failed within a TV or other items we sold, the customer could demand a replacement, once you accept a repair you lose most of the conditions under the sale off goods act. The term not fit for the purpose used by a customer 10 months into a years warrentee was enough for him to be able to force us to replace it, endorsed by the local Trading standards officer. You have many rights as a customer if a fault occurs, few once you accept a repair as you are deemed to be happy with the product. deerwarden.

As an aside, how many of you would want the rifle repaired, raise a rukus, get the money back and buy something else, as said, my new Sauer 202 was less than that, seems a lot of money for a Remi 700 with bells on and a p##s poor manufacturing system of QA.

 

[Muir]

I hate to say I told you (the shooting public present) so, but ...

It does not take 'abuse' or 'over pressured' rounds to have a bolt handle come off a Remington 700. As I have said in the past, I have replaced many bolt handles from Remington 700's that just came off with everyday use. One rifle match saw three 700 bolts on the ground during two relays. This is why none of my big-game rifles are Remingtons. The best thing you can do to a new 700 is to have a SAKO style extractor installed and have the bolt handle removed and heli-arced back in place. At that point you will have a reasonably reliable rifle.~Muir

 

[Overlay]

Friend of mine , same rifle , same exact problem, two gunsmiths later, all working perfectly again, had the bolt re fixed.

 

[Brithunter]

I hate to say I told you (the shooting public present) so, but ...

It does not take 'abuse' or 'over pressured' rounds to have a bolt handle come off a Remington 700. As I have said in the past, I have replaced many bolt handles from Remington 700's that just came off with everyday use. One rifle match saw three 700 bolts on the ground during two relays. This is why none of my big-game rifles are Remingtons. The best thing you can do to a new 700 is to have a SAKO style extractor installed and have the bolt handle removed and heli-arced back in place. At that point you will have a reasonably reliable rifle.~Muir

Ahhh but Muir EDgars Bros will be so quick to void any warranty then. There are not good to deal with at the best of times given that non standard fix they will have a huge opening to dive through leaving the customer in the lurch.

Well as I have said many time I would not give a Remington 700 house room. The shoddy way they are made and assembled has been proven sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many times. Just goes to show what slick advertising can do.


Now let's look on the bright side:-

1) No one was physically hurt.

2) It did not happen on live quarry

3) It can be repaired and even improved upon .................................. but that will mean even less warranty support for what it's worth .

I really do think you need to speak to you local trading standards office and if you can can well I would get my money back plus any extra you can squeeze out of them to cover your losses like the time for a variation.

 

[Sharpie]

A lady at my club had an even worse problem with a Remington 700, a large chunk of the bolt face blew off. No reason.

The importer refused to replace it, instead filled it up with weld and machined it to fit.

Not impressed.

Why would anyone buy a Remington, when for less money you can have a Howa, properly made from one piece forgings, flat bottomed receiver with integral recoil lug, proper extractor Sako-style, decent barrels, good choice of stocks etc.

No possibility of the bolt handle coming off, its all one solid piece of metal. And the trigger and safety work reliably (google "Remington trigger problem").

 

[User00003]

ok, I'm convinced not to buy one, ever! to the OP,,,sorry to be negative about your chosen firearm, it probably makes you quite upset and unhappy. If you still like it, have it reworked like Muirs suggestion, he knows what he's talking about, otherwise, do give your retailer a bit of a time if they don't offer you a replacement or money back towards another rifle/brand.

let us know how it works out.

 

[the_cunctator]

Cheers all for the input. It seems the Remi 700 will always polarize views. The yanks are masters of branding over substance after all.
I'm going to talk to Trading Standards later this morning. If I accept a repair I'm going to feel like I've just helped the problem 'go away' and this won't help any other customers in future. Let's hope nobody is hurt from a similar instance - let's not forget, the bolt handle flew off under recoil.
I'm moving toward asking for my money back and replacing it with a European rifle of quality for the same or less cash. Other issues I've had with it are the poor quality of the internal mag aluminium base plate and the swivel bolts in the stock coming loose (they don't grip into the composite effectively).
It's a shame as it shoots well enough. My preference would be for a Sauer I think. Let's hope my FLO helps me out swiftly on the ticket side of things...

 

[ejg]

One of these Technical solutions that should theoretically be strong enough. Which it is but only
if the braze is done well. What I never understand is when companies just don't rectify a problem
once it happens to a certain percentage. This bolt handle flying off seems to be known world wide.
I have a few Remingtons and it might happen to them, if so I'll get them welded. No problem.
I would still prefer a Remington with broken off handle over a Steyer or Sauer. The handle can be fixed...
Overall the Howa is a better designed action than the remington but doesn't seem to take off. Savages
seem to get bad reports in Germany and have often just been returned to the shops due to quality issues.
My late sixties Sako had also been a heap of troubles which are now sorted.
My next project is a 98, looking forward to playing with that. I don't think the perfect rifle will
ever be made.
edi

 

[the_cunctator]

What I never understand is when companies just don't rectify a problem
once it happens to a certain percentage.

Absolutely mate! They seem to be happy with a certain percentage of failure. See the response I got from Remington themselves earlier in the thread effectively saying 'this doesn't happen very often so we don't care'.

 

[Brithunter]

I am sorry that you have to go through this. I know if it was me I would be spitting nails as "Mother would say" having not so long ago dealt with the importers over some Remington ammunition I feel for you. They are good at twisting things including the facts They are not like they once were on customer support I am sorry to say. Back in the 1980's or early 90's the LPA rear sight on the Tanfoglio Ultra pistol broke and they simply popped a replacement in the post. I cannot see the ones running the show doing that now.

Sadly Remington was once a quality brand one has only to examine one of the Remington marked P-14 rifles or the Remington produced US Rifle Model 1917 they also made some fine 03 Springfields. The later model 30S was also a properly made rifle. for several years I tried to get hold of a Model 30 in .35 Remington that is in storage but to no avail. They went downhill back in 1963 with the model 700 and it's been slowly slipping down the slippery slope of poorer quality ever since. I am not convinced that the Trigger is as bad as recently made out though. Sure it could be better but in almost all cases of failure it could be traced to lack of care or improper adjustment.

OK now don't all faint .

I have an American friend who collect typewriters ................. and the old Remington Rand type writers are quite some machines. On the old computer is some photos of a couple that he sent me and they were really built to last something one cannot claim on their new production stuff .