.300 Win Mag for Wild Boar in France?- UK licence problems

[Todhunter]

I am trying to vary my license to exchange my .3006 for .300 win Mag so that I can shoot boar in France and everywhere else with a rifle that is also usable as a back up for red stags in Britain. .300 WM seems the only non military callibre that will do for boar everywhere with readily available ammo. My police firearms officer questions whether .300 WM isnt "too big for boar"? I think that in some countries anything below .300 is not allowed for boar. Is this right? What is wrong with a .300 Wm with a 175 grain bullet?

Advice welcome.

 

[JabaliHunter]

That is just an excuse to try and push you towards a smaller calibre. One of the most popular boar calibres is the 9.3x74 (.366) so it is nonsense to say a .300 is too big for boar. Stick to your guns (pun intended) if you can, but if you must go 'smaller' ask for a 7mm mag, which is technically smaller but can be loaded with 175gr bullets and you won't notice the difference...

 

[caorach]

Why don't you give him a 180 grain 30-06 bullet and a 180 grain 300WM bullet plus a pair of callipers and ask him to show you exactly where the 300WM bullet is too large to fit into the chest of a boar that the 30-06 bullet will fit into?

 

[matt_hooks]

The 300 Win Mag pushes a 180gr bullet at an ME of just under 4000 ft.lb. The 30-06 pushes the same bullet (and it is exactly the same bullet, as we all know) at a slightly less impressive, but still fairly hefty, 3000 ft.lb.

The idea of "overkill", or a calibre being "too big" is utter pish. Your good reason is that you can't use the 30-06 in France (it being a military calibre) and the 300 WM is the rifle that you believe will do the job best. That's good reason, it's not up to them to tell you what calibre to choose!

 

[Brithunter]

As already pointed out bot cartridges you are discussing are in fact the same calibre. It just happens one operates at a slightly different pressure and has a larger case capacity.

The fact that the FEO is not aware of such a simple basic fact is of course no surprise.

 

[matt_hooks]

You have "good reason" in that there are places where the 300 WM is the smallest calibre allowed for boar, so if you get anything smaller you won't be able to shoot boar with them.

It really doesn't matter if the FEO thinks the 300WM is "too big" for boar, but if you want to convince him, have a search round on the net and find a picture of a boar's physiology. Show him the thickness of the muscle around the neck, and the thickness of the skull. Then show him a picture of the physiology of the Red deer. Much thinner musculature, thinner bone structure, altogether a softer target.

Now ask him to tell you if the 300 is overgunned for a boar!

 

[8x57]

If it is too much for boar why is it so popular in France with boar shooters? Incidentally I know a few people who have .300 win mag on ticket for deer in the U.K.

 

[JabaliHunter]

You have "good reason" in that there are places where the 300 WM is the smallest calibre allowed for boar, so if you get anything smaller you won't be able to shoot boar with them.

Which countries specify a .300 Win Mag minimum?

 

[Todhunter]

Thanks Guys, I will Persist. I think it is one of the Balcan Countrieshat specifies a minimum calibre of .300. Does anyone know this?

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Most countries i've dealt with have no max and a minimum of 6.5
Never heard of such twoddle.
300 mag is a great pig platform.
If they persist at been funny look at a 7mm rem mag shot all my boar but 1 with mine all shot dead.
Not to large even on roe with correct bullet choice.
Ammo just as easy to get as any magnum.

 

[Tamus]

Here in the UK the current "general" thinking is that .270win is a good minimum consideration for boar. Frankly, I would never rule out even the 6.5x55 Swede (I've seen it used to take boar very efficiently) but the advice here is what it is and the Police know it.

Now, what is a .270win? it's a necked down .30-06 and actually fires similar bullet weights at similar (to near identical) velocities, but with better drag co-efficients. So the "leap" to .30-06 is neither massive nor illogical (i.e.you can use better suited "slow-heavies" in the old ought six)

What is a 300 win mag? ... Well, it may be a shortened-case .30 cal derivitive of the serious big game hunter's .375 Holland and Holland and it certainly looks the part but... in reality it's just the .30-06 with about 120yds more velocity at this end. that's to say it starts of with a higher muzzle velocity than the .30-06 but at 120 yds the 300's bullet is travelling at about the same speed as '06's does at the muzzle and from there on out they are equal (i.e. with the .30-06 velocity always trailing by about 120yds). The Police seem to worry greatly about the risk centre-fire rifle bullets pose at 3or 4 miles???? I'd say the diference between 3 or 4 miles and.... 3miles +120yds or 4miles +120yds is entirely meaningless. In fact, if Police advice is that .270win is a recommended minimum then .300 win mag must be nearly perfect by their own admission, though maybe not quite as perfect as a decent 9.3

If there's a debate about conditioning for deer, there is NO debate, it's just a slightly ramped up .30-06 and surely better you have one rifle for deer AND boar rather than need an extra rifle just for boar.

The above has to be your thinking, but on your form just explain your good reason, which comes from such thinking in relation to what you wish to do.... et voila.... a reasoned approach which you can back up in interview, if needs be and which would make refusal on cartridge choice alone an unsustainable position should the need for a judicial review arise. I.M.H.O. that is.

 

[8x57]

A logical well thought out and reasoned arguement Tamus.

 

[User00023]

Such a shame the .338 Federal failed to grab the market it deserved. More m/e and a greater m/v than a 30-06 with less recoil. Just the job for boar, I would have thought. I was all set to buy one.


Come to think of it, I still fancy one. Just a matter of getting back into reloading to keep it fed.

 

[finnbear270]

Why did the request not just say ".300 calibre rifle".......... cartridge case is not actually governed by actual law.

 

[Tamus]

Such a shame the .338 Federal failed to grab the market it deserved. More m/e and a greater m/v than a 30-06 with less recoil. Just the job for boar, I would have thought. I was all set to buy one.


Come to think of it, I still fancy one. Just a matter of getting back into reloading to keep it fed.

Snap! .... and even the humble "little" .358win, a lot in a small package.

 

[matt_hooks]

Iwrch, looking at it from a physics perspective, how can something that pushes more energy forward push back less? (Newtons' third law, "The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and co-linear")

Perceived recoil might be less, for a variety of reasons relating to gun mass etc. but the actual amount of energy dissipated has to be similar.

Anyway, that's by the by.

The .300 WM will do the job admirably. The difference, safety wise, is exactly nil, and that's the only reason that they can realistically decline a caliber.

 

[Tamus]

"Looking at it from a Physics perspective" They used to say that Bumble Bees should not be capable of flight.

Obviously, someone was not seeing the full picture, when "they" declared that.

Likewise, some cartridges are just "kinder" in the way they work. The 6.5 Swede might be one of the most notable in that respect. Actually I think the "experts" will tell you it's an "efficiency" thing. Using less powder or operating at lower presures, perhaps with a "better" pressure curve, to generate a given velocity for a given bullet weight can clearly knock lumps off the recoil... perceived or otherwise. Allegedly, the .338 Fed does give you a fairly vigourous push, but it doesn't "kick" hard, like some magnums. Though to be honest my own .30-06 rifle is markedly "kinder" now, with same bullet weights and velocities, compared to its previous incarnation as a .270 win. And... at the other end of the scale from the 6.5 Swede the 8x68s is, reputedly, a particularly fierce beast, for all it does. Go figure... View attachment 16130

 

[prometheus]

If it is too much for boar why is it so popular in France with boar shooters? Incidentally I know a few people who have .300 win mag on ticket for deer in the U.K.

I am one of them and there are many, also on ticket for uk boar.

 

[8x57]

Why did the request not just say ".300 calibre rifle".......... cartridge case is not actually governed by actual law.

Our local FEOs will require information on what the actual cartridge is rather than just the calibre which the guidance notes suggest is all that is required. Their reasoning for this is that for example a .338 Lapua Mag is an entirely different cup of tea to a .338 Win Mag (citing an actual case here).

 

[Tamus]

Our local FEOs will require information on what the actual cartridge is rather than just the calibre which the guidance notes suggest is all that is required. Their reasoning for this is that for example a .338 Lapua Mag is an entirely different cup of tea to a .338 Win Mag (citing an actual case here).

Well it is a slightly different cup, but that's about all you could possibly say, with any authenticity... Love it

Have we had a..... What's-the-daftest-statement-we've-heard-made-by-an-"Expert" ... thread yet?

If not, I hope someone takes up the chance to do it now~Tom