What's the heaviest bullet any of you have put in a .308?

[neutron619]

Hello chaps.

Been a while since I've been here, but I'm looking for a new reloading project and I'm hoping some of you might help me with a bit of preliminary information.

Here's the background: I've got a mate who's thinking about getting and running a .45-70 as his woodland stalking rifle. His variation's gone in and he seems pretty sure to get it. I'm rather jealous of that and I'd love to get one too, since I've always liked the idea of using one of "ye olde" ex-blackpowder calibres and it fits with my personal approach on ballistics / meat damage etc. Only problem is that I probably don't do enough stalking at this point (with a 6-month old to look after) to justify another deer rifle to the FEO, so it'll have to wait a few years until I can hunt more often.

So, all that in mind, I thought it might be fun to see if I could copy the approach, if not the implementation: I'd like to load up a really heavy (for calibre) bullet in my .308 at moderate velocity and see how it behaves. This would be mostly as an exercise in reloading, but if I came up with something that worked, I might have the option in future of going after one of those hairy pig things with the tusks and the grunting, etc.

Here are the questions:

1. How good is the Miller Stability Formula?
If I use the calculator on the JBM website with numbers taken from the reloading manuals and bullet maker's websites, I can get values of around 1.6 for a 200gr RNSP or even a 220gr RNSP bullet, which suggests sufficient stability in my 1-in-12" barrel. If I change the values to reflect an ogive bullet of those weights, I get results indicating severe instability as I'd expect, but it looks like an RNSP could work. Does anyone have any experience of how much one can rely on Miller coefficients in the real world?

2. For those of you who are .308 owners / reloaders - what's the heaviest bullet you've managed to load successfully (and do you have any tips on doing it)?
I include with the question a request for anyone who's got recommendations for powder or particular bullets. Alliant is easiest for me to get and I can probably get RL17 off the shelf - I'm told this may be a good candidate?

I'll add a few more thoughts.

The first, in case anyone thinks I'm trying to do something unusual / silly / etc., is that I realise this may be silly / impractical, but I'm a curious person and I'm interested in pushing the boundaries and seeing whether I'm capable of making this work.

Second thought: yes, I realise I could just put a variation in and get a .30-06 / .300 Win Mag / .300 Weatherby on my FAC and load heavier bullets in a bigger case which was designed for them, but financially it's impractical and it will be hard to get a 300 magnum past the FEO when I'm not long into my first FAC. I'll probably apply for the Weatherby when I do my next renewal (just for fun!), or when I've got more frequent range access to justify it. Oh, and I like my .308 -another hat tip to the person on here who helped me find it.

Third: my rifle details - Heym SR20 with 24" barrel and 1-in-12" twist.

Fourth: if anyone can identify a candidate load and run it through QuickLoad to give me some idea of velocity, energy, etc., I'd very much appreciate it.

With thanks in advance to anyone who can offer some insight on this subject,

Adam.

 

[Brithunter]

May I humbly suggest you investigate the idea of a soft cast paper patched bullet. It would seem to fitt he bill of what your wanting to a "T" .

Another thing to check with jacketed soft points in the heavier weights is the velocity that they are designed to work at. The 308's case is a bit limited in capacity for the 200+ grain weights. I tried the 200 grain Speer spitzer in my Brno 601 and it didn't like them. Also tried some 220 grain Hornady RN with similar poor results. Did not get around to trying them in the P-H 100 Lwt. The only cast bullets I had to hand were some 215 grn ones for the 303 which are a little too large in diameter..

 

[Southern]

So, are you looking for hunting loads, for use on red deer, or just punching paper at long range?

 

[paul o']

220 match hpbt just to try, norm is 190 vld's in target rifle, 150 hunting rifle.

 

[neutron619]

Hi Brithunter,

May I humbly suggest you investigate the idea of a soft cast paper patched bullet. It would seem to fitt he bill of what your wanting to a "T" .

"Soft cast" I understand, "paper patched" I do not. Can you explain what this means?

Another thing to check with jacketed soft points in the heavier weights is the velocity that they are designed to work at. The 308's case is a bit limited in capacity for the 200+ grain weights.

Agreed. I plan to buy a bigger .30 calibre at some point in the future, but as noted above, it's not practical. Also, the success or failure of this experiment won't affect any hunting in the immediate future, so if I find that the bullet doesn't expand in, for example, ballistic gelatin, I can just not use the load and discard it.

I tried the 200 grain Speer spitzer in my Brno 601 and it didn't like them. Also tried some 220 grain Hornady RN with similar poor results. Did not get around to trying them in the P-H 100 Lwt. The only cast bullets I had to hand were some 215 grn ones for the 303 which are a little too large in diameter..

Just out of interest, what barrel length did you use for these? I've read that if you're going to push such heavy bullets at decent speeds, you need a long barrel (maybe more than 24") to get the best out of them...

Thanks,

Adam.

 

[neutron619]

So, are you looking for hunting loads, for use on red deer, or just punching paper at long range?

Neither, specifically. If I come up with something stable and accurate then maybe Red deer, but mostly this is just about giving myself a new project and because I'm curious.

220 match hpbt just to try, norm is 190 vld's in target rifle, 150 hunting rifle.

So you're basically saying you've managed to stabilise a 220gr ogive bullet in a .308? Can you tell me what the twist rate on your rifle is?

 

[paul o']

mine was a 1-10 shilen 28" tube later chopped to 26 and why i went to 190 vld's. a -7 up to 10 will do the job 8 being the best we found why ? think we got around 2200 fps ish with n160 nothing that made me jump around 3" at 100 so this was't the way to go and as wished to shoot them in matches they were crap but ha ho we have to try don't we .

what "was" the rifle it was a custom rem 700 added to a aw stock with the above barrel built by pal in the states i don't paper punch in comps anymore just cant find a good recipe for paper

.308? Can you tell me what the twist rate on your rifle is?

 

[neutron619]

See above

Third: my rifle details - Heym SR20 with 24" barrel and 1-in-12" twist.

 

[paul o']

have fun boss but out of interest why are you wishing to push a very heavy pill around again .

 

[neutron619]

have fun boss but out of interest why are you wishing to push a very heavy pill around again .

In short:
- it gives me a new reloading project
- it stimulates the mind on an enjoyable subject
- because I can
- it might do for big deer or boar
- mate is getting a .45-70 and if I can't have one too, I thought I'd try a bullet even slower and even heavier in his honour (but not necessarily on live game).

It might work, it might not - but it'll keep me busy and gives me something shooting related to do when I can't afford the money or time to actually go out shooting.

 

[paul o']

make you right then feller we all love to play around and getting a result just may pay off

 

[Southern]

A 165-gr bullet is fine for American elk, especially inside 200 yards, so it will work for red deer.

The 174, 175 and 178 gr bullets work well, but are target bullets, that you can't use in the UK, as I understand things.

The following factory loads with 180-gr hunting bullets all have 2,000 ft lbs of energy at 250 yards.

Federal, 180G, Nosler Partition, 2,570 ft/s
Remington, 180G, Ultra Bond, 2,620 ft/s
Hornady, 165G, Interlock, 2,700 ft/s
Winchester, 150G, XP3, 2,835 ft/s
Sellier & Bellot, 180G, Nosler Partition, 2,600 ft/s

You could use the Sierra 190 gr Gameking with a proven load for the 190 SMK.

190 SMK
42.5 gr. Varget 42.5 gr IMR-4064 47.0 gr IMR-4350 47.0 gr RL-17
Lapua brass
210M
COAL = 2.775"
~2550 fps

 

[The tramp]

In short:
- it gives me a new reloading project
- it stimulates the mind on an enjoyable subject
- because I can
- it might do for big deer or boar
- mate is getting a .45-70 and if I can't have one too, I thought I'd try a bullet even slower and even heavier in his honour (but not necessarily on live game).

It might work, it might not - but it'll keep me busy and gives me something shooting related to do when I can't afford the money or time to actually go out shooting.

Even heavier than what ? A .45-70? No chance in .30 cal. I know of several 500+gr boolits for a .45, jeez, I know of 450+gr for the .444
You'll never match in weight, and you'll probably not go slower either, I have a 444 load that pops out the barrel (literally 'pops') at 800fps, to try and get that slow in a .30 cal, you'll likely get one stuck up there :/

 

[neutron619]

Even heavier than what ? A .45-70? No chance in .30 cal. I know of several 500+gr boolits for a .45, jeez, I know of 450+gr for the .444
You'll never match in weight, and you'll probably not go slower either, I have a 444 load that pops out the barrel (literally 'pops') at 800fps, to try and get that slow in a .30 cal, you'll likely get one stuck up there :/

I'm assuming you didn't mean to insinuate I was an idiot, but rather that I was unclear.

To clarify: "even heavier and slower" than those which I already use in my .308. I assumed that it was obvious that I wasn't going to try and push a 500gr bullet out of a .30 calibre rifle for the reasons you describe so I didn't think it required any further clarification. The thought amuses me however - I suspect a bullet that heavy would come out about 3" long and probably wouldn't fit in the magazine, let alone with a case on the back end of it.

800fps however, is not a problem. I have a subsonic loading with a 170gr cast bullet that uses about 7½ grains of Trail Boss to give somewhere in the region of 840fps or around 250 ftlbs. It does no more than pop, but they come out every time and it's point and click without appreciable recoil at 40-50 metres. It would almost do for rabbits, but I don't use it on anything other than targets for the sake of humaneness.

 

[The tramp]

Yes, I was saying 'unclear' rather than idiot.

And yes, with cast, you can run very slow, less pressure needed, and friction. But, in order to keep my post short, and not writing an essay, I was assuming that you were planning on using jacketed bullets rather than cast boolits. Just 'posting on the safe side' as I know of a few barrels scrapped by getting jacketed bullets stuck by running too slow. Easier to say 'no' than 'yeah but, no but' lol.

 

[neutron619]

Yes, I was saying 'unclear' rather than idiot.

Thanks. Just checking

And yes, with cast, you can run very slow, less pressure needed, and friction. But, in order to keep my post short, and not writing an essay, I was assuming that you were planning on using jacketed bullets rather than cast boolits. Just 'posting on the safe side' as I know of a few barrels scrapped by getting jacketed bullets stuck by running too slow. Easier to say 'no' than 'yeah but, no but' lol.

Aye, I've heard of that happening too. In this case, I think a 200gr pill and hard cast may be the way to go, if I can find something suitable. Otherwise I should get some expansion from a RNSP with a decent amount of lead showing at the nose, but I'm struggling to find a bullet that matches that spec. I have heard that Speer produce one, but I haven't found anything more than mythical references to it yet. I know both Hornady and Sierra do a 220gr pill, but that stretches even my eternal optimism about what's possible to the limits of credibility. Out of a .300 Weatherby with a 1 in 10" barrel, sure. Out of a .308 with a 1-in-12" - well - Miller says it's ok, but I'm sceptical on the basis of received wisdom.

If Muir sees this thread I'll invite him to comment on whether 2000-2200fps is achievable with cast bullets and what kind of BHN numbers I'd have to be looking at to avoid serious leading problems. I think I've heard him say it is possible, but I don't remember where I say the thread...

 

[The tramp]

I run my .444 with cast boolits at 2200fps. Just need to use a gas check. Bhn, no idea, cast from range scrap with 5% Linotype. I'm getting very little leading, but not that causes issues below 100 shots or so

 

[neutron619]

I run my .444 with cast boolits at 2200fps. Just need to use a gas check. Bhn, no idea, cast from range scrap with 5% Linotype. I'm getting very little leading, but not that causes issues below 100 shots or so

Sorry - forgot you'd talked about that above - apologies. Will do some research on hardness values, but that might be a way forward if I can find someone with a 200gr mould (or the tools I can borrow to make some myself). It does mean I'm going to have to go away and look up some new data though - everything I've got for those kind of weights is for jacketed. A call to the chap I know who has QuickLoad may be in order.

Thanks for sharing the information.

 

[tackb]

1-11 will not stabilise a 240g match king in 308 , it will stabilise a 208 Amax @ 2500 FPS

 

[The tramp]

1-11 will not stabilise a 240g match king in 308 , it will stabilise a 208 Amax @ 2500 FPS

Ha ha, says the man who said a 175 match king won't stabilise in a 1-11" at subsonic velocities. .

Evening Russ

(The subs were still flying true at 300yds wednesday, hell of a drop, but they all (10) went through the target pointy end first and straight, and reasonably close together to boot, but they are very close to mach1, and had one cracker)

Pete