Young collie gripping my sleeve when patting?

urx

Well-Known Member
We recently took on an 18month old Border Collie with a horrendous bac catalogue of failed homes and rescue centres (5 other homes and 2 rescue centres before us in 12 months )
History of nipping in very specific circumstances but otherwise a smart little unappreciated gem.

All going well after 3 weeks no issues but one interesting thing.
When patting he rolls over for tummy rubs and likes to gently grip the sleeve of the arm not patting him.
Doesnt feel at all threatening ....just interested in the ‘why’

Also on a slightly more disconcerting note he likes to rub closed teeth against your hand....side or front... Very gentle and slow but ...um..hmm...yes disconcerting.

Any thoughts?
 
We recently took on an 18month old Border Collie with a horrendous bac catalogue of failed homes and rescue centres (5 other homes and 2 rescue centres before us in 12 months )
History of nipping in very specific circumstances but otherwise a smart little unappreciated gem.

All going well after 3 weeks no issues but one interesting thing.
When patting he rolls over for tummy rubs and likes to gently grip the sleeve of the arm not patting him.
Doesnt feel at all threatening ....just interested in the ‘why’

Also on a slightly more disconcerting note he likes to rub closed teeth against your hand....side or front... Very gentle and slow but ...um..hmm...yes disconcerting.

Any thoughts?
Ok, you could have a future problem on your hands here. I have come across this behaviour in a collie with a disturbed past before.
The holding of the sleeve is the first stage towards not letting you stop the tummy rubbing - just keep a close eye on this situation, any sign of pushiness when you stop rubbing?
What happens if you put the dog's food down, and then take it away again? Any sign of possessiveness, or is he OK with this?

Do you have children in the house?

I'm not trying to scare you about this, but collies are very sharp and very intelligent, and will become dominant if given a chance. I recall a similar situation which ended with the dog snapping at someone's face, severing their nose, just because the owner tried to turn the dog out of an armchair!

(I'll just add that I have nearly 30 years experience of training collies, so am reasonably clued up about the mindset of the breed).
 
:cool: the tummy rubs or any other pats cease as soon as the ‘grip’ is deployed.
No problem behaviour or pushiness ensues.

Food possession is in the history where removal of food was used as a punishment amongst other things.
No issues there at all.
No kids involved or visit so fine there.
Had problem collie for 9 yeras prior so know something of the breed.
Just not encountered this specifically before.
Thanks for the heads up
 
Is there a sheep farming forum that you could join? They're sure to have lots of knowledge on this and cures (if it's even needed)?
 
:cool: the tummy rubs or any other pats cease as soon as the ‘grip’ is deployed.
No problem behaviour or pushiness ensues.

Food possession is in the history where removal of food was used as a punishment amongst other things.
No issues there at all.
No kids involved or visit so fine there.
Had problem collie for 9 yeras prior so know something of the breed.
Just not encountered this specifically before.
Thanks for the heads up
Sounds like you're being pretty sensible about it, whatever. Assuming that you've got the dog as a pet, rather than as a working dog, the first thing I would do is start going to agility sessions (or similar) with it. Something like that will give it a proper focus and something to think about and apply its mind to.
Also, don't let it start jumping up and putting its paws on you for fuss. While it seems harmless enough, this can end up leading to the dog snapping at your hand as soon as you stop fussing to push it away.
Fuss the dog only when you choose, not when it chooses.
I hope it works out ok. Don't be hard or aggressive towards it, or unnecessarily overpowering. Make sure you provide it with its own space somewhere (dog crate if indoors, or outdoor kennel) so that if things are going through a bad patch you can avoid further conflict while you both cool off.
 
I deal a lot with dogs that bite. I would say it is either anxiety or dominance or both. Just remove his grip from the sleeve, say 'no' gently, and return to having fun.

Three weeks is still early in the relationship. If you make him feel secure and provide him with a structured and purposeful role, it may well be that many of his previous problem behaviours never emerge.

Oh, and be a kind boss: avoid all that alpha nonsense.

Kind regards,

Carl
 
Ounce and a quarter down it's ear, problem sorted today. Tomorrow could be to late :thumb:
"When patting he rolls over for tummy rubs and likes to gently grip the sleeve of the arm not patting him.
Doesnt feel at all threatening ....just interested in the ‘why’"
And for that you think the dog should be put down? Wow! I assume that you're not a pro dog trainer then?
 
"When patting he rolls over for tummy rubs and likes to gently grip the sleeve of the arm not patting him.
Doesnt feel at all threatening ....just interested in the ‘why’"
And for that you think the dog should be put down? Wow! I assume that you're not a pro dog trainer then?
:stir: correct and I've got all my fingers and so have my kids.:tiphat:
 
So the fact the dog has had 5 homes is dogs fault?


Maybe dogs behaviour is down to have 5 inappropriate owners who haven’t a clue about dogs ?


Ever heard of train the trainer not the dog?

Also anyone who has half an idea about dogs know they are one of the most Intelligent breeds going and need stimulus and direction.


Paul
 
Thanks for the constructive comments.
Monty has had a few poor owners but he is a great dog with potential and just needs a reasonable guiding hand.
Im interested if anyone has encountered these specific behaviours before as VSS has and how they have been interprtted.
He is not a dominant dog (much less so than my previous collie Zeke)
:cool:
 
For the record, I have a 10 month old springer that nibbles on the cuffs of anyone who rubs his belly too. He hasn't got a nasty bone in his body. Should I have him put down Pat? Well, you can't be too careful can you!
 
A smart cuff over the ear twice will do the job of stopping it,if not then.. thrice.
It must be firm as the owner needs to be the dominant one.
Highly over the top IMO. The dog doesn't appear to even be dominant. This appears to be a habit, not a grab for top dog status! A firm "no" would be what I would be going for instead of beating the poor animal that has had a poor enough start in life already. It's clear from your posts that you have different training methods in your parts john and I'm sure your dogs are very obedient but it is possible to train a dog without beating it you know.
 
Highly over the top IMO.

Suit yourself...and be bitten ha ha.

instead of beating the poor animal t

Where was it mentioned to beat the animal ?

but it is possible to train a dog without beating it you know.

Beating and cuffing are two different methods sport...I reiterate where do I mention "beating"

If a dog here is of such ilk that it needs "beating" it wont get that at all it will simply be disposed of.
 
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