Jumping Jehoshaphat! When did it become mandatory to have a Degree in applied mathematics to permit shooting a deer?
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Short stalking rifle calibre.
- Thread starter Mrmjspice
- Start date
This season I’ve had 2 at c.35m in very last light, some about 80m in woods and most at 160-200m on fields. With .30-06 light rifle 22in I have little idea what happened after firing, as was the case with my (sold) unmodded .308 - but they were normally dead. Heavy 6.5CM keeps the sight picture much better, I’m not sure its changed much in terms of end result, a runner still needs getting back on to. Perfectlly happy with both ends of scale.
I have a lightweight 18” .308 so I could put have heavy (ASE SL7i) mod up front to take muzzle flip. It’s great. By complete contrast, I have a 26” varmint barrel 6mm creed with PES T12 and ZCO scope. It’s a workout! I pick up the creed more often than not for general stalking due to low recoil and ability to see strikes, especially at distance.
I get the desire for a short overall length rifle, but don’t get hung up on going too light or too short, especially without a decent mod.
Of course, you could also run a 110 grain TTSX from a 308 at 3500fps which is flatter than that 100gr 6.5 out until 800 yards. But again, there isn't much in it
The point I was making wasn't that 308 is (or can be) flatter than 6.5 creed. It was that perceptions and common wisdom about certain cartridges being flat/loopy/fast/slow, etc are often just plain wrong.
It's like saying a car with a 2.0 engine is faster than a car with a 1.5. Which car? Which engine? How's it geared?
Sorry, but I disagree! As I say I’ve shot creedmoors and .308s at various ranges out to 1000 for over 10 years, the creedmoor is flatter, at 1000 it’s considerably flatter, it also a lot better in the wind. My 139 gr scenar load is 26.2 Moa drop at 1000 yards, that’s 50” give or take less than your example above.Of course, you could also run a 110 grain TTSX from a 308 at 3500fps which is flatter than that 100gr 6.5 out until 800 yards. But again, there isn't much in it
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The point I was making wasn't that 308 is (or can be) flatter than 6.5 creed. It was that perceptions and common wisdom about certain cartridges being flat/loopy/fast/slow, etc are often just plain wrong.
It's like saying a car with a 2.0 engine is faster than a car with a 1.5. Which car? Which engine? How's it geared?
I agree though, at normal stalking ranges the difference is less pronounced, and some loads will be faster than others. To get your 3500 fps with a 110 you’d need a 26/27” barrel to be within safe load data - I did with my 27” .308 and lovex DO73.5. The OP doesn’t want a long barrel though, he wants a short one and the .308 will suffer less velocity drop from shortening than the creedmoor. So the creedmoor may well end up more loopy than the .308 with say, a 16” barrel.
Some rounds are flatter than others, my 6.5x55, creedmoor and .280 are all flatter than the .308s I’ve owned to 300 yards and better in the wind, the 30-30 is decidedly more loopy, the 45-70 has 6.5 mil drop from 100 to 300 yards!
They’ll all get the job done though, not that I push the last 2 much past 120 yards for deer!
That's kinda what Heym said earlier right, because of the wider diameter or the round the 308 will suffer less drop in a shorter barrel than the 6.5.
So if I want a short barrel like the above video posted then I go 308 or if I want to buy a gun now that will be flatter shooting for longer ranges in future then I go 6.5 CM with a longer barrel ....
At the moment I'm leaning towards the 308 and then if I end up getting ground with open fields and longer shots I either learn the drops with the 308 or get another rifle in 6.5 and and use them for stalking specific land....
Well I'm currently shooting 130g in 270 so I see they do 130g ttsx in 308 so if probably go for that as it's well within the drops from 75 to 175 to not worry about hold over.Of course, you could also run a 110 grain TTSX from a 308 at 3500fps which is flatter than that 100gr 6.5 out until 800 yards. But again, there isn't much in it
View attachment 462046
The point I was making wasn't that 308 is (or can be) flatter than 6.5 creed. It was that perceptions and common wisdom about certain cartridges being flat/loopy/fast/slow, etc are often just plain wrong.
It's like saying a car with a 2.0 engine is faster than a car with a 1.5. Which car? Which engine? How's it geared?
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Unless you’re shooting half a mile, whether 308 or 6.5 is completely irrelevant. The marginal differences in drop will mean nothing compared to your groups in field conditions.
Look more ar what rifle you like, fits you, feels right and suits your budget expectations and personal wishes for feel and design.
Hell, why not just keep your 270 annd shoot a 150g bullet, and mount the sling on the barrel, sinking the rifles height above your shoulder way down for woodland stalking. Problem solved, you’re welcome
Look more ar what rifle you like, fits you, feels right and suits your budget expectations and personal wishes for feel and design.
Hell, why not just keep your 270 annd shoot a 150g bullet, and mount the sling on the barrel, sinking the rifles height above your shoulder way down for woodland stalking. Problem solved, you’re welcome
the op doesnt have a .270 hes putting a variation in for a deer calibre , as was in his first postUnless you’re shooting half a mile, whether 308 or 6.5 is completely irrelevant. The marginal differences in drop will mean nothing compared to your groups in field conditions.
Look more ar what rifle you like, fits you, feels right and suits your budget expectations and personal wishes for feel and design.
Hell, why not just keep your 270 annd shoot a 150g bullet, and mount the sling on the barrel, sinking the rifles height above your shoulder way down for woodland stalking. Problem solved, you’re welcome
This tool ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator
Is available from the same website I used to produce the charts in my other posts. An educated guess at the velocity you'll have from factory ammo is to assume 30 feet per second slower than box specs per inch of barrel less than the tester (test barrel usually being 24in, sometimes 26). That's a guide, not a rule, but gives you something to work with.
I like to play with their Ballistic Trajectory tool, which is how I produced the charts in my other posts. Move the zero range around on that tool and you'll see the expected elevation above point of aim (at closer ranges than the zero) and drop below (ranges beyond the zero) for different ranges.
aint no time for that theres deer to be shot
Remember those Mitsubishi(?) adverts where it used to say "challenge your perceptions"?
I've used maximum published velocity for both bullets here. The TTSX is still shooting flatter than the Scenar at hunting ranges. Even the 130gr TTSX load I posted earlier is flatter than the scenar at that range, and that was using factory box velocity.
Of course if I'd set the chart to 1000 yards it would start to look very different, but that was never what the OP asked about or what I was talking about.
Did you miss the part where I agreed with you about hunting ranges?
You have my scenar load wrong though, It’s doing 2900 fps from a (quick) 26” barrel.
Would it upset you if I said I don’t believe the BC on the 110 gr TTSX? Nosler e-tip is only .245 and that’s a pretty comparable bullet.
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For your application a short(ish) .308 ticks all the boxes.
Did you miss the part where I agreed with you about hunting ranges?
No, I didn't miss that. It's just that you told me off originally for not making a fair comparison and then you started going on about match bullets
It's not your fault, Creedmoor is a disease, you can get help
(Tongue firmly in cheek here, by the way. I've got one. I've got a 308 too.)
Anyway, back to the OP. Should be get a 6.5 creedmoor or a 308? I think you and I both agree the answer is......
Yes!
Jagare
Well-Known Member
I've shot a .308 since the mid-70s. Why load a a .308 with light bullets. If you want to shoot 130grn and lighter bullets, get a smaller calibre rifle. All this talk about an extra few fps or the ballistic coefficientsy of a bullet is all bollocks. I50-165grn is perfect in the 308, they will kill the biggest stag, buck, or boar roaming the UK. People wax lyrical about 500-1000 mtr shots generally again talking bollocks. I see the OP comes from East Sussex, Sussex, where it's filthy with deer, and you are unlikely to shoot over 200 mtrs. I'm Sussex, born and bred, and deer numbers seem to have exploded since I left 20+ years ago. So I must have killed a few when I lived there all with my trusty .308 with 165grn home loads with a rifle sighted to the point of aim. In those days, I had no idea what the velocity of my ammo was. I just aimed at the deer, and it was dead.
It’s an internet forum, if it’s not for talking boll*cks, really what is it for??
The light bullets and velocity is spurred on by the likely need to go copper soon. In which case velocity is required for them to work well and that usually means a light for calibre bullet.
I bought the .280 specifically to shoot heavier bullets than my 6.5s, now I’m using copper I shoot a 124 or 130 grain bullet which is what I was ahooting in the 6.5s!! They kill very well though….
Fair.No, I didn't miss that. It's just that you told me off originally for not making a fair comparison and then you started going on about match bullets
It's not your fault, Creedmoor is a disease, you can get help
(Tongue firmly in cheek here, by the way. I've got one. I've got a 308 too.)
Anyway, back to the OP. Should be get a 6.5 creedmoor or a 308? I think you and I both agree the answer is......
Yes!
But I’m in remission, I refuse to use the creedmoor for deer these days
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