Is there really any need for a 12 Bore...?

RED-DOT

Well-Known Member
Red hot day here in Central Scotland today sat under a tree with my three Chessies with my wee 28G o/u and 28 gramme No6 shot and a woodie came towards us and i dropped it at a LRF 65 yards. So fast, so pointable, so accurate so has 12G now had its day when little bores now pack the same punch without the weight?
 
How much does your 28bore weigh?
It's clearly been very carefully regulated to produce consistent pigeon-kiling patterns from an ounce of 6's at 65yds!
 
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As far as traditional game, grouse and walked up guns go, you may well be correct. The performance is certainly there and a lot of people now seem to chose 20s on the little syndicate I beat on, and one bloke has had some success with a 28.

However, there is now a trend towards higher birds, where long barelled, reasonably weighty 12s coupled with a substantial amount of shot seem to be favoured. I would also suggest that a 12 of around 7.5lbs is the best tool as a clay gun, especially if you want to put 28gram loads through it. That could become a little uncomfortable through a 28, or even a 20 if you wish to shoot 100 bird courses every weekend or shoot a large day on pigeons.

It is also worth considering that a gun which you want to shoot wildfowl with needs to be able to handle a reasonable load of steel shot, another area where a 12 has an edge, this may become more of a factor in the future if lead is ever banned as well. Therefore, on balance, as an all rounder, the 12 is still best, but if you only shoot walked up days or a few pigeon for the pot, there is much to be said for a 28 or a 20.

A lot of the 20 bore o/u guns are actually much the same weight as the traditional s/s 12 anyway, so that may go some way towards explaining the popularity of the smaller bores.
 
People buy a 20 bore want to shoot equivalent 12 bore loads in it 20 bore cartridges more expensive where is the sense
 
When down in Devon loading for a gentleman on the shoot at Covelly, i saw a guy cleanly killing pheasants so high you nearly needed bino's to see if they were cocks or hens.

Jesus could he shoot that little 28 and at a cartridge ratio of 1 3/4 -1 which on high peasant is just about as good as it gets in my opinion.
 
When down in Devon loading for a gentleman on the shoot at Covelly, i saw a guy cleanly killing pheasants so high you nearly needed bino's to see if they were cocks or hens.

Jesus could he shoot that little 28 and at a cartridge ratio of 1 3/4 -1 which on high peasant is just about as good as it gets in my opinion.

Sounds like remarkable shooting, but we need to keep in mind that Payne-Gallwey's recipe for high pheasants was a 28g load of 7s. You couldn't have done that with a 28bore in those days (nor would anyone have wanted to), but you can now.
 
To each his own. Look at the price of even bigger bores (mainly for wild fowling) to see that different bores are the thing. A heavier gun suits many, whilst a lighter gun has it's advocates. Viva la difference.
 
In theory a 12 gives better patterns than a 16, a 20 or a 28 with the same shot load. This is said to be because less shot in a 12 actually contacts the side of the barrel (fibre wad) and so is less deformed. Thus regular pellets. flying better, give more uniform patterns. So the theory goes.

Also something, so they say, that the best stack for shot is where the width of the column is equal to its height "the square of the column" or somesuch expression. This an ounce in a 16 bore is this "perfect" "square of the column" and heavier and lesser weights in larger and smaller bores.

Of course the major change is that nowadays we have dense powders so less space is lost to that factor and the length so won can be used for a crimp closure and thicker wads. Thus allowing an ounce...a physically impossibility in Payne-Galwey's or Teasdale-Buckell's day...of shot in a standard length 28 bore case. Quite simply you wouldn't have been able to fit it all in in the space available in the standard length 2 3/4" 28 bore paper cases of THEIR day with THEIR powders. As what space inside the cartridge that was once all used up accommodating a charge of the holy black or one of the old bulk smokeless powders is now liberated by the use of modern dense powders.

So yes ignoring the friction of the shot column against the barrel wall it is POSSIBLE....but...sometimes a long pencil thin .410 or 28 bore maybe just doesn't have the same natural "carry" when swung as a 12, 16 or even a 20? So needs a different style of shooting? Or more skill? I, for one, find that a side by side .410" is more difficult to avoid "poking" with than a heavy ancestral thirty inch barrel 12 bore.

Plus how do you balance the stock weight against the barrel weight if the stock is needed to be the size for a full grown, tall, man? I am guessing that the barrel walls are thicker on a 28 bore than on a 12 bore?
 
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Is there really any need for a 12 Bore?

No I don't think there is.

Is there any need for 270, 65x55, etc etc when a 30-06 with do it all.
No

But isn't it fun having all the different calibers and gauges?
 
"Is there really any need for a 12 Bore?"
Or IF you already have a 12 Bore:given choice of loads from say 21gm up over & umpteen choices re: gun weight/configuration why would you "need" anything else?
 
I once read that a .410 has the highest muzzle velocity of all shotguns and would therefore have the greatest range if aimed in the right direction. So.... Is there any need for a 28g?
.177 air rifle has more range than both if you can hit the right spot.
Single barrel Baikal 12 bore will kill as well as a Beretta EELL so what's the point of having one of them?
What's the point of this thread?:confused:
MS
 
The point is.... clean kills can be performed better by a lesser gun than most would have believed. It is all about accuracy over lead in the air?
 
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