Second test of HPS 7mm-08 ammunition (because I'm a glutton for punishment)

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
Good morning everyone.

I went back to Bisley on Saturday to have a second, more conclusive test of the 7mm-08 ammunition that HPS loaded for me. Last time, group sizes weren’t great and results were a little random. So this time, I paid rather more attention to all the controllable factors. Specifically, I used proper front and back rests, shot five round groups, and left plenty of time between them to let the barrel cool down properly. Below are the results. Now before you jump to conclusions, here my own and a few notes.

  • Top left is the first group. The first three shots are the ones closest to the bullseye (two of them are almost the same hole).
  • I then shot five rounds at the middle target, mostly to see how many rounds I could shoot before heat caused the accuracy to deteriorate. I’ve numbered the shots, and the answer seems to be that after five or six shots, the barrel really needs to cool down as the bullets start flying all over the place.
  • After letting the barrel cool right down, I shot the top right group, which is fine.
  • After further cooling, I shot the bottom right target. The drawn-in hole is because I put one shot into Toxster’s zeroing target that was just left of mine. Sorry Toxster! I must have momentarily drifted away as I was also listening to a short lecture from my right about how the Lee-Enfield’s stock affects grouping.

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So broadly, I’m happy enough with those groups. It’s clear that my rifle is best with the first two or three shots, when the barrel’s cold, which is absolutely fine for a stalking rifle. It’s also clear that this is probably the greatest accuracy that this rifle/cartridge is capable of with me at the tiller. So that’s the group to beat when I start reloading my own. In the meantime, these HPS rounds are fine for all practical purposes, and I have a clearer idea of what my rifle is capable of.

Now for some load development…
 
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Oh, and what I forgot to say is that these are clearly good enough to use on deer. But I think that on Saturday, I'll still use the Federal Fusions. Stick to the plan.
 
When are you going to reload?? I have been immersed in 7-08 for the last few weeks and often wondering when you are going to assemble some of your own.~Muir
 
Shortly, don't worry! But just now, I'm going to do a little actual stalking, which is after all the real point of this. I'm in discussions with a French ammunition company about loading their proprietary bonded bullet, but before I go and put in an order of bullets and powder, I'd just like their view on my plan, since there is no available loading data on their specific bullet. I mean I'll probably just do this anyway, because I'm like that when I have an idea in my head, but I'd like at least a nod from these guys.

They are of course in France, which in my experience means that they don't have to answer emails. That's not just businesses. My friends and family across the channel are rubbish at responding too. Of course, it's also possible that the guy has other stuff on than dealing with some bloke in the UK badgering him about his pet project...
 
I hope you get your bullet but wouldn't it be better to try something a little less proprietary?

Data? Data?? WEE DOAN NEEDE NO STINKIN' DATA, MAN! :D
What bullet weight? ~Muir
 
Well I've been well-meaningly strong-armed by the SD collective into reloading, and for good reasons. But if I'm going to do, I may as well have some fun in the process. I mean everyone told me not to buy a rifle with a silly full-length stock, no moderator and an awkwards chambering. Well now I'm sure they'll also recommend that I stick to tried and tested bullets and loads. But given that the bullets are no more available in the UK than the factory cartridges, for the same price and effort, I may as well choose something a bit special. So I'm going to try to load Freyr 150gr DL1s for hunting, and the 150gr Sierra MatchKings for practice (you can actually find them, and they're dirt cheap).

Here's a link to the bullets in question:
Ogives 284 DL1 150gr.170gr. DL2177.50gr. - Munitions Freyr

The object, for purposes of your entertainment, is to shoot a roe buck with them in July and be, to my knowledge, the first person in the UK ever to do so.
 
Well I've been well-meaningly strong-armed by the SD collective into reloading, and for good reasons. But if I'm going to do, I may as well have some fun in the process. I mean everyone told me not to buy a rifle with a silly full-length stock, no moderator and an awkwards chambering. Well now I'm sure they'll also recommend that I stick to tried and tested bullets and loads. But given that the bullets are no more available in the UK than the factory cartridges, for the same price and effort, I may as well choose something a bit special. So I'm going to try to load Freyr 150gr DL1s for hunting, and the 150gr Sierra MatchKings for practice (you can actually find them, and they're dirt cheap).

Here's a link to the bullets in question:
Ogives 284 DL1 150gr.170gr. DL2177.50gr. - Munitions Freyr

The object, for purposes of your entertainment, is to shoot a roe buck with them in July and be, to my knowledge, the first person in the UK ever to do so.

Atta boy , I've been following your progress from the beginning and I like your choice of rifle and caliber .

Good luck and good hunting AB
 
The object, for purposes of your entertainment, is to shoot a roe buck with them in July and be, to my knowledge, the first person in the UK ever to do so.

Well. There's a good reason and one I approve of. As long as you have your motives so concretely defined I won't attempt to talk you out of it! I have used the 150 Sierra Game King in my 7-08 and like them, but I'm thinking it's a lot of bullet for deer so I'm switching to the 120 gain Pro Hunter @ 2900 fps. (+/-) I don't think a deer will fare well when one of these connects with it.~Muir
 
I haven't been reloading very long - perhaps 18months.
It is a crashing bore, yet I persist because the result is accurate and consistent ammuniton at a reasonable price.
For me, that concept cannot include bullets sourced with difficulty from an uncommunicative supplier at over £1 each.
Á chacun son gout, but my stalking cartridges are made with ordinary softpoints, the price of which does not preclude plenty of practice with same zero/holdover/wind-correction that I'd need when actually stalking: which I consider a considerable advantage.

Admittedly, one still has to find someone who can supply them, though!
 
I haven't been reloading very long - perhaps 18months.
It is a crashing bore, yet I persist because the result is accurate and consistent ammuniton at a reasonable price.
For me, that concept cannot include bullets sourced with difficulty from an uncommunicative supplier at over £1 each.
Á chacun son gout, but my stalking cartridges are made with ordinary softpoints, the price of which does not preclude plenty of practice with same zero/holdover/wind-correction that I'd need when actually stalking: which I consider a considerable advantage.

Admittedly, one still has to find someone who can supply them, though!

+1 to plain based soft points. I lucked into 500 of the Sierra Game Pro's I like and I've burned 100 already dinking with load development. I have 1850 of the Sierra 150 Game kings but I'm hording those. Next month I will begin testing cast bullet loads for off hand practice. I'm certain I can make up an accurate load that will cost pennies to shoot. IIRC I have 9000 7mm gas checks for cast bullets on hand and that's the major cost.~Muir
 
To be brutally honest with no offence meant to yourself , those groups from custom ammo are shocking PM I will extend the offer once again if you wish learn to load your own give me a shout , if you were charged for the load development I would suggest someone has lifted your leg mate and owes you a refund.
 
To be brutally honest with no offence meant to yourself , those groups from custom ammo are shocking PM I will extend the offer once again if you wish learn to load your own give me a shout , if you were charged for the load development I would suggest someone has lifted your leg mate and owes you a refund.

Pierre load developed for my rifle and got it shooting I did a 3 shot group at 150 yars into an extended one hole group, give it a go

Atb Matt
 
Sorry PM, not sure what you were expecting by way of feedback, but those "groups" are still dismal.

You say you really tried this time, with double bags etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you could ask an experienced target shooter to try your rifle, and see if they can improve on things.

Regarding unobtainable froggy bullets, not sure what point you are trying to make. Get your rifle shooting straight first with known good bullets. Once you have confidence in it and know its true capabilities, then is the time to indulge yourself with esoterica.

Unless you shoot very regularly your opinion of bullet performance on flesh and bone will be of little worth. I've used bullets from .243 70 grains up to 30-06 180 grains in five different calibres and they all killed UK deer convincingly.

Rifles and bullets are very mature technology, there is very little new to be learned. The only interesting developments in terminal ballistics for deer sized game IMHO relate to lead free bullets, with Barnes being the outstanding example.

If you hunt dangerous game then specialists such as Woodleigh have some unique products too.

I know nothing of your French supplier, but would be interested to know the technicalities of their products.

Start with a proven accurate bullet such as an A-Max. Then consider V Max or Nosler BT are basically the same thing. All deer legal in England/Wales.

If you can't get any of these working with e.g. N140 or TR140 then get rid of the rifle and start again.

At 100 yards your bullet holes should all be touching. Not necessarily "one ragged hole" but all within a bullet diameter.

7mm 08 has tremendous accuracy potential, and your rifle should be able to demonstrate it, despite its' quaint (but free-floated) stock.
 
..So broadly, I’m happy enough with those groups. It’s clear that my rifle is best with the first two or three shots, when the barrel’s cold, which is absolutely fine for a stalking rifle. …

PM.

These groups remind me of some of my efforts with my Ruger MK II's in 2002/2003. My groups were fine for red deer, but no use for roe deer. My recommendation is to invest in a better rifle and moderator. Then use the best factory ammo you can find to practice and compete. Once you're shooting better, then consider pursuing roe deer.

Regards

JCS
 
'and the 150gr Sierra MatchKings for practice (you can actually find them, and they're dirt cheap)'.

Sssshhhh.... don't say stuff like that or the prices may go up!
I'm also an advocate of Sierra Prohunter bullets. They work very well on deer & are plenty good enough for load development giving great accuracy - provided the barrel/rifle is capable of playing its part.
 
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To be brutally honest with no offence meant to yourself , those groups from custom ammo are shocking PM I will extend the offer once again if you wish learn to load your own give me a shout , if you were charged for the load development I would suggest someone has lifted your leg mate and owes you a refund.

Hello Pierred. I appreciate your offer to show me how to reload, and I'd take it up if I hadn't already accepted a similar one from someone who lives close to me. I think I've also already mentioned that it's not really custom ammunition in the sense that it's tailored to my rifle. There was no load development, I just asked them to clone my Federal Vital Shok factory rounds and they did. They perform the same, at a third of the price. So I'd say that for what it is, it's very good value. It's just that I think I can do better myself, especially with the kind help of chaps like yourself.
 
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