Ahhhhh confused?!?!?

Ieazo

Well-Known Member
So I've yet to venture into the world of CF but I've got a slot for .223, I though this is what I wanted in a fast twist say 1 in 7 or 1 in 8.

But it the more I read the more confused I get, I then started thinking maybe just a .308 would be the answer, my FEO tried to persuade me to this instead of .223 in the first place so shouldn't be an issue getting the variation.

I then saw a .243 for sale, and that got me thinking that maybe this would be a happy medium, somewhere between .223 and .308. Then I spotted a nice .270 for sale and got thinking that in sure I'd read somewhere that it's a very quick, very flat round with good long range ballistic properties, is that right?

Can an anyone help me, what about 6.5 etc? Ahhhh

What are the pro's and con's of each of the calibres, .223, .243, .270 & .308?

Looking for a rifle to take Roe initially, not straight away, I intend to get to know my rifle first....targets and then vermin, perhaps a Charlie or two. I am thinking of doing my DSC1 next year too. Anyway initially Roe but perhaps in years to come other larger Deer species may be on the cards, which is sort of what is swaying me away from .223.

Other questions, why is Prvi ammunition so cheap, is it really crap? Any use on vermin such as rabbits? Is loading your own very expensive to get set up for, are some calibres more expensive to set up to reload than others?

Sorry tons of questions, any answers greatly appreciated.
 
Right here's some no nonsense BS.

your answers are in red

What are the pro's and con's of each of the calibres, .223, .243, .270 & .308?
In truth there is very little between most of the normal calibres. Over sensible shooting ranges (upto 250m ) they will all shoot within a few inches of one another. Some will kick harder some will not. My personal preference as I get older is to stay away from the .270/.30-06 and magnum rounds as I find them a bit harsh. .308 maximum. As others have said, be guided by what ammunition you have a ready supply for. It is doubtful that you will ever be able to shoot as well as your rifle can. So choose a rifle that you like and have confidence in, as confidence will improve your shooting far more than any fancy gadget ever can. You will change your rifle in the future, so spend twice as much on your OPTICS as you do on your rifle. You will keep good optics for a long time. Decent rifles are cheap in comparison.

Looking for a rifle to take Roe initially, not straight away, I intend to get to know my rifle first....targets and then vermin, perhaps a Charlie or two. I am thinking of doing my DSC1 next year too. Anyway initially Roe but perhaps in years to come other larger Deer species may be on the cards, which is sort of what is swaying me away from .223.
Do your DSC1 & 2.

Other questions, why is Prvi ammunition so cheap, is it really crap? Any use on vermin such as rabbits? Is loading your own very expensive to get set up for, are some calibres more expensive to set up to reload than others?
You need to consider whether or not reloading is going to save you any money. It can be costly to set up and will you shoot enough rounds to justify it. I'd also say one step at a time. Shooting first, then consider reloading. When you can't get a load right, you sometimes start to doubt your equipment which leads to lack of confidence in it, which as I said above, will not help your shooting in the beginning
 
.243 ! Will do all feller and be ok for roe and fallow .I have a 308 and a .243 for fox but now selling the .243 as i don't have any land for fox any more .
 
There are other things to consider besides caliber, although a 243 would be best all round, suitable for anything from small game to
largish deer.

First question for me would be weight of complete outfit, scope + mounts+silencer+ bipod+ sling + ammo.

wood or plastic. thumbhole or conventional

magazine or hinged floor plate.

answer those questions first, compromise on any of those and you will always be bugged by the rifle
 
223/243 then get something bigger if and when you start looking for 25 stone stags

unless you have money to burn stick to standard barrel twists and bullet weights in the range the calibre was designed for
never seen a .243 yet that didn't shoot 100gr factory loads out of the box
 
223/243 then get something bigger if and when you start looking for 25 stone stags

unless you have money to burn stick to standard barrel twists and bullet weights in the range the calibre was designed for
never seen a .243 yet that didn't shoot 100gr factory loads out of the box

Sorry Ed, waiting for the furore now... :popcorn:
 
I've previously been advised the faster twist .223's will stabilise heavier bullets and thus will maintain accuracy for further, that is to say for target use they can be pushed further not to say you can shoot live beasts at further ranges.

Are you saying this isn't worth bothering with? That it isn't really of any advantage to seek out a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist .223?
 
I've shot target out to 900 yards with my 223 in 1 in 12 twist with 55grn bullets. :cool:....

OK... It WAS possibly calmest day in history :eek: but its possible....

All depends on how far you want to shoot... If its consistently out at long range I'd think about something else....
 
I want to consistantly reach out to 600-700yrds 'plinking' just cause I've got the land to do so and I think it'll be fun. I'd like to be using heavy bullets to buck the wind and for the longer range advantage they offer.

If I can get consistant I may push the rabbit ranges out beyond 300 yards, not sure why distance you guys generally use CF for rabbit control at? It is a fox and Roe rifle but that doesn't stop me shooting rabbits with it now and then.
 
I want to consistantly reach out to 600-700yrds 'plinking' just cause I've got the land to do so and I think it'll be fun. I'd like to be using heavy bullets to buck the wind and for the longer range advantage they offer.

If I can get consistant I may push the rabbit ranges out beyond 300 yards, not sure why distance you guys generally use CF for rabbit control at? It is a fox and Roe rifle but that doesn't stop me shooting rabbits with it now and then.

any cf will muller rabbits, a 243 will lose accuracy earlier than a 308 shot the same amount, heavy 223 rounds to maximise a tight twist are going to be home loaded, so increasing initial costs.
If I were you, I'd get a .308, extremely versatile, from foxing with a 110gr v-max through 150ish gr soft points for deer, to 175gr match ammo for playing around at longer range.

The .308 has possibly the best, varied range of factory ammo, and 99.9% of gunshops will carry .308 in stock, the Hornady 110gr TAP V-Max(factory ammo) is great fox medicine, there is plenty of milsurp 7.62x51 for 'plinking' for around 50p a bang. Value for money/best bang for y'buck, .308 buddy.

If you plan on visiting any MOD ranges, you can't use expanding ammo, loads of fmj available in 7.62/308, and in .223, very little in .243, and normally 'premium brands' too, increasing cost.

.223 is a handy, and useful round, but if you are planning on using 5.56 for plinking, do some research first as it is not the same, 7.62 and .308 are no problem to interchange.


Buy yourself a decent 2nd hand .308, spend as much as you can on the best scope available and enjoy :)

Pete
 
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I've previously been advised the faster twist .223's will stabilise heavier bullets and thus will maintain accuracy for further, that is to say for target use they can be pushed further not to say you can shoot live beasts at further ranges.

Are you saying this isn't worth bothering with? That it isn't really of any advantage to seek out a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist .223?

No
There is definitely an advantage, no denying it.

But on the basis of this comment:

I've yet to venture into the world of CF but I've got a slot for .223,

My advice is not to try swimming across the Atlantic before you have tested your water wings.
You are considering the area of "heavy for calibre" rounds AND reloading for them before you have any experience of shooting centre fire or reloading for them.
Its not rocket science but unless you have a bottomless pit of cash I wouldn't go down that route or recommend a novice do so.
Any .223, 243, 308 will shoot out to a 600yds.......its the pink fleshy bit that makes them hit the target.

you wont hit any more targets or any more deer because you have a 1:7 or 1:8 twist!

Fast twist barrels are a novel idea but on the whole there is a factory chambering that does the same job for half the cost and probably does it better.

75gr .224? get a .243!
105gr .243? get a 6.5mm!
150gr 6.5mm? get a .270!
180gr .270? get a 7mm!
200gr 7mm? get a 30cal!

consider the costs:
£500-750 for a decent donor rifle
£750 for a rebarrel
£500 for your endless supplies of reloading hardware and components
£500 for a scope

you're £2-£2.5k at least (and I am being moderate with some of those numbers!) in the hole before you have pulled the trigger

go buy a .223 and 1000 rounds of mil surp or a .243, or a 6.5x55, or a 308 and learn to shoot it well in any condition with a minimum of fuss

Don't be the guy with all the gear unless you don't have to ask basic advice on the benefits of a fast twist barrel or have £5k you don't need.
Plenty of people will take your money if you really want to go down that route.
 
No

75gr .224? get a .243!
105gr .243? get a 6.5mm!
150gr 6.5mm? get a .270!
180gr .270? get a 7mm!
200gr 7mm? get a 30cal!

The problem with your above example is that the same weight bullet in a smaller calibre will always be balliatically superior, ie the 75gr 224 bullet will have a higher BC, will drop less and buck the wind better when launched at the same velocity then the equivalent weight 243 bullet and so on......

Ian.
 
Bewsher, thanks for elaborating on why you wouldn't recommend a fast twist .223 when setting out into CF shooting. Sorry for questioning but I need to understand why something is a bad idea so I can accept it as such and you last post has given me a better appreciation of why you said to go with the standard to begin with.

I am still torn over which cal to go with, I'm starting to discount .243 and leaning more towards .223 but 'The Tramps' post has got me thinking about .308.......ahhhhh I'm still confused.

Thank you to all who have offered their advice this far, anyone else who has an opinion/advice to offer I'm all ears. This is one of those decisions I'd like to try and get right first time.
 
Ieazo, dont listen to bewsher he does not know what he is talking about:stir:, get yourself a 243, it was designed as a long range varmint cartridge but is very capable of talking medium size deer and more with heavier bullets,
With 85-87gr Ballistic Tip/V max style bullets it is devastating on fox and any other smaller varmints you may want to shoot, with 100gr bullets it will drop any medium sized deer and reds as well with good bullet placement

Ian.
 
Ahhhh and I thought I was making progress by leaning away from .243.

Seems the CF calibre debate is a hotter potato than the old air rifle .177 or .22 debate, it's obviously a very personal thing which comes with experience, once you get to know the ballistic characteristics of the various calibres first hand you get to know what you personally like, is that a fair statement?
 
243 loaded right will do all you ask 308nope drops like a brick :stir:270 more bang for your buck harder hitting i have droped more deer on the spot with 243 than eney other caliber i have used so 243 270 or 7mm rem mag just for the hell of it you onley live once
 
you are never alone with a .308 ammo any place around the world and it can be loaded to a very good standard, mine hand loaded and set at .75 over 100 zero is at 9" low at 300 mts with 150 pro hunters, tiz more range than i need but useful if i do .
 
Remember that 623yrd shot, in what must have been a 20mph 10 o'clock gusting wind, that landed little more than 60cm behind the crow on the hill? That was a 60grn V Max from a 1..9 twist .223.

Knowing your land, and your history, I would buy a .223 and get a variation for a .308, as those reds will be down the hill and on to Jim's place soon enough.

Both .223 and .308 have a variety of fairly low cost off the shelf ammo.

If you reload you can make up .223 for under 30p each (using fired brass) and .308 for a little over 40p.

If it was down to just one, I would stick with my .308.

Choices. :)
 
Ah, I wondered when you would show up to talk me out of .243 :)

Think I'll give you a call soon to have another chat about all this, cheers.
 
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