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Thread: yesterday's Telegraph

  1. #1

    yesterday's Telegraph

    In the Weekend section was an account of a journalist accompanying a stalker on the culling of a roe doe. There was a regurgitation of the sadness of death tempered by the necessity for control, as seen in articles elsewhere.

    The core of this story, however, was the proclaimed need for a 50% annual cull based on a UEA report in The Journal of Wildlife Management in 2013. I believe Dr Paul Dorman, the author of the report later said this figure was taken out of context.

    Anyway, the journalist, true to his craft, has now implanted on the readership, an immutable cull target. I merely wonder how this may influence the public perception of stalking.

  2. #2
    Yesterday's news is today's chip wrappers! I'm afraid this has never been more true (except you don't get chips in newspaper anymore!)

    The standard of journalism is absolutely shocking today. I was hopeless at school but any of the children in my English class could write better copy than most of what you read in the newspapers today. Don't even get me started on internet news sites (Daily Mail especially).

    There are three points to take from this, firstly, I don’t think too many people actually read or care about stories like this so I wouldn't worry about too many consequences.

    Secondly, be very wary of taking journalists out stalking!

    And thirdly, if Professor Dolman or his students had written a simple, laymans summary of their work then the lazy journalists would have been able to simply use that and he wouldn't have had to spend the rest of his career defending/explaining himself!
    Last edited by Glyn 1; 22-02-2015 at 18:03.

  3. #3
    I have long since stopped talking to people (except those who do similar) about hunting, stalking and shooting in general. I live in a particularly middle class bubble here in the south west where, although venison is golloped with gusto, the mere suggestion of culling or shooting the odd deer enacts the 'Bambi Reflex' and people think there's something mentally wrong with people who do it.....

    It saddens me but there's just no way round it - the antis have what they believe is the moral high ground and every time field sports are highlighted in the press or on tv it always ends up getting skewed that way. My daughter hated the idea of culling until I explained to her - 'what would you rather have, your bacon taken from a pig who's been stunned, hung and throat cut to bleed out whilst still alive or those venison sausages from a occasional beast taken in the blink of an eye (having grown up wild and free)? She's 11 and it only took her about half a second to decide.

    Ive seen the rift widen between the anti and the shooter (whatever discipline) over the last 3 decades and it grieves me - pedalled ignorance to Joe public is to blame and undoubtedly the above is one more blow.

    All my 3 kids enjoy being in the field and all are cutting their teeth on the rimfire (even my daughter, who's pretty handy), they're attempting to work the dog and are visibly better for it all compared to their sit at home gaming peers. The only thing we can do is nuture and pass on the love of the countryside and the necessities it requires to stay healthy - in the same way that our fathers, uncles etc did for us. We have to keep positively reflecting the sport on our side of the scales so the balance is never tipped.

    Ok - soap box free now....

  4. #4
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Well, I can only disagree.

    Hiding everything away and hoping people leave us alone will get us nowhere. Educating people about deer, their characteristics, their impact on the environment, their by-products, and what we do to control them, has to be the way forwards.

    When I spoke to the Royal British Legion this last week a number of the audience pointed out about the increase in deer, particularly with regards to road accidents. There was also a conversation about how strange it is that the same people who fight to save every badger also advocate a large cull of deer.

    Tell one person and, if you inspire them, they'll tell half a dozen more.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hereford View Post
    I have long since stopped talking to people (except those who do similar) about hunting, stalking and shooting in general. I live in a particularly middle class bubble here in the south west where, although venison is golloped with gusto, the mere suggestion of culling or shooting the odd deer enacts the 'Bambi Reflex' and people think there's something mentally wrong with people who do it.....

    It saddens me but there's just no way round it - the antis have what they believe is the moral high ground and every time field sports are highlighted in the press or on tv it always ends up getting skewed that way. My daughter hated the idea of culling until I explained to her - 'what would you rather have, your bacon taken from a pig who's been stunned, hung and throat cut to bleed out whilst still alive or those venison sausages from a occasional beast taken in the blink of an eye (having grown up wild and free)? She's 11 and it only took her about half a second to decide.

    Ive seen the rift widen between the anti and the shooter (whatever discipline) over the last 3 decades and it grieves me - pedalled ignorance to Joe public is to blame and undoubtedly the above is one more blow.

    All my 3 kids enjoy being in the field and all are cutting their teeth on the rimfire (even my daughter, who's pretty handy), they're attempting to work the dog and are visibly better for it all compared to their sit at home gaming peers. The only thing we can do is nuture and pass on the love of the countryside and the necessities it requires to stay healthy - in the same way that our fathers, uncles etc did for us. We have to keep positively reflecting the sport on our side of the scales so the balance is never tipped.

    Ok - soap box free now....
    A good post IMO, today's children are tomorrow's shooters, fishers and hunters. My own daughter, now 30, could clean a Rabbit and have it in the pan in 15 mins when she was 12, her overall talents included gutting and preparing all manner of fish, not wasted when she became a scout leader of mostly city lads.

    regards WB

  6. #6
    It's hard not to be pessimistic sometimes and it seems that all the world is against us. (Now I sound like I'm quoting from Watership Down). But the vast majority of the public still don't think too much about hunting or indeed how their food arrives at the table.

    There is a hard core of antis who don't want shooting of any description whether it is more humane that farmed meat or not. They're a lost cause who wouldn't change their views under any circumstances and any conversation with them is futile. This apart, I think we just have to be seen to be reasonable and explain things given any opportunity, to dispel the perception that we're all Rambo types that kill anything that moves.

    Where my pheasant shoot is, a visiting relative was at the farm with her two children (6 and 8) when we were putting pheasants in the pens. They were on the trailer in their plastic crates waiting to be put in the pen and released. The woman said "Oh look at all those birds squashed in there, that's cruel". I took the time to explain the need to keep them secure when travelling, that we sourced them locally and asked her to compare it to what she did with her kids when she put them in the car! The kids now love beating. She even does a bit and will eat pheasant "because they have been treated ethically". Annoyingly her dog runs riot through the drives, but hey, I guess you can't have everything.

    The point is, I often get frustrated explaining what we do over and over to curious people. But I know that the effort can be worth it.

    Right where's my headband, bandoliers, shoe polish and two LMG's, I'm off out....
    Last edited by Pedro; 22-02-2015 at 20:22.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Well, I can only disagree.

    Hiding everything away and hoping people leave us alone will get us nowhere. Educating people about deer, their characteristics, their impact on the environment, their by-products, and what we do to control them, has to be the way forwards.

    When I spoke to the Royal British Legion this last week a number of the audience pointed out about the increase in deer, particularly with regards to road accidents. There was also a conversation about how strange it is that the same people who fight to save every badger also advocate a large cull of deer.

    Tell one person and, if you inspire them, they'll tell half a dozen more.
    Totally agree with you in terms of talks, guided walks, presentations, training etc. I do quite a lot of this but I'm afraid I have been let down once too often by journalists and photographers. As soon as you are no longer in control the wheels fall off.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Well, I can only disagree.

    Hiding everything away and hoping people leave us alone will get us nowhere. Educating people about deer, their characteristics, their impact on the environment, their by-products, and what we do to control them, has to be the way forwards.

    Tell one person and, if you inspire them, they'll tell half a dozen more.
    WG - you're right and occasionally I do get the opportunity to talk it out with more open minded folk - I'd never shy away from that.

    I think it's just different where I live now - its not like it was when I grew up in the sticks - the mere mention of shooting alters people's perception of you - it is very odd and is just easier sometimes to not mention what you do in your spare time. There seems to me to be very little positive action in this area which highlights the benefits, livelihoods etc other than what ends up vacuum packed at the farmers market!

  9. #9
    I think I didn't explain myself well enough. What I was inferring was that the perceived need for a 50% cull target would put deer management in a more positive light, albeit based on misinformation.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    I think I didn't explain myself well enough. What I was inferring was that the perceived need for a 50% cull target would put deer management in a more positive light, albeit based on misinformation.
    Surely it just makes deer look like vermin, how is that positive?

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