Using a moderator on a firearm without a variation for a moderator !

Lateral

Well-Known Member
I have done several searches, but not found anything to clarify my question.

I know the guideline says,

"13.79: Sound moderators should be assigned a calibre, but it is good practice to permit them to be used with more than one calibre of firearm. It is a matter for the individual shooter, subject to the “good reason” test, to decide whether to use a moderator on more than one suitable firearm or to have individual moderators for each firearm".

If I have two rifles, say a 270, & a 308, and a variation for a moderator for the 308 only, is it legal to use that moderator on the 270, or do you still require a variation for a moderator on the 270 ?

I will ask my FEO to clarify, but I'm curious to hear other peoples interpretation !
 
I am prety sure you need it on your FAC, but your best point of inquiry would be your FEO.

+1

Each rifle should be entered on the FAC with the moderator permissioning specific to that gun/calibre. Although you can, no doubt, share a moderator amongst your rifles you would need to have each rifle 'moderator legal' on the FAC to avoid breaching the law.
 
I believe as long as you have a free slot for a 270 mod you can use your 308 mod
as a free slot is your authorisation to acquire or something to that effect
 
No such thing as a .308 moderator

get your FEO to remove the calibre derivation and crack on

your variation is for a moderator. The end
what you stick it on is up to you

its only this ridiculous system of calibre derivation that makes a mockery of the whole system

i have two mods for 7 barrels
both marked "full bore"
i have one mod for 4 rimfire barrels marked "small bore"
 
Nope

You have permission for the rifle, and you have permission for the moderator. You can quite easily use one moderator on both rifles with only one slot for a mod.

I have a full bore moderator for my .222 and my .243 and can use it on my air rifle if I so choose


You do NOT need a slot for moderator on both rifles.
 
+1

Each rifle should be entered on the FAC with the moderator permissioning specific to that gun/calibre. Although you can, no doubt, share a moderator amongst your rifles you would need to have each rifle 'moderator legal' on the FAC to avoid breaching the law.

Do you have any reference for this? Nothing in the HO Guidance or FA Acts that I am aware of that states or implies that you need a rifle conditioned for a moderator to avoid 'breaching the law', (which law?).

Agre with Bewsher and Rake Aboot. It's the moderator that is the controlled S1 firearm component and subject to condition(s), (if any), on the FAC. Therafter you can use it on any suitable rifle on the FAC irrespective of whether you have a moderator 'slot' for the rifle or not.
 
I totally agree with you and I stand corrected but, in my defence, I had it explained to me that way by my FEO. He had construed to me that each caliber needed a slot for a moderator which was clearly wrong (and has cost me unnecessary money and admin).
This is, however, the guy who initially turned down my application for a .243 as it was 'too large' for the land upon which I intended to shoot and I had to have a .270 instead.
My apologies for any misinformation.
 
No sweat, but it does somewhat emphasise the fact that some FEOs are not necessarily the best source of information when it comes to firearms matters! I guess the clue is in the job title - Firearms Enquiry Officer - although some are very clued up, but even that situation might change soon with the move to shift enquiries and checks to beat coppers in the name of economy!

Having said that, it is always a good idea to apply for moderator slots for all your rifles on application or renewal, even if you don't intend to use them. They can save you the fee for a new rifle on a one-for-one variation. ;)
 
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I totally agree with you and I stand corrected but, in my defence, I had it explained to me that way by my FEO. He had construed to me that each caliber needed a slot for a moderator which was clearly wrong (and has cost me unnecessary money and admin).
This is, however, the guy who initially turned down my application for a .243 as it was 'too large' for the land upon which I intended to shoot and I had to have a .270 instead.
My apologies for any misinformation.

That feo obviously thinks that size matters :).
I dread to think how it's going to go when they put it all onto the average beat bobby.
When it was done that way years ago I had to show him where the serial numbers were and he was unconvinced that some guns didn't have any. That just didn't compute in the official mind.
 
There are plenty of pitfalls you must look out for regarding how moderators are conditioned on your FAC, its all down to how your authority to possess and your conditions are worded.
Common sense should prevail in all cases but technically you could easily contravene your conditions.

If your mods are recorded by name given a calibre designation in your authority to posses section, then technically they can only screwed on to the rifle of the same calibre, for instance:
The "223 calibre wildcat sound moderator" can only be screwed onto your 223 rifle, screw it onto your 22-250 and you will be contrevening your conditions.

If your mod is recorded as "223 sound moderator No visible markings" then it must be pointed out to your licensing deptartment that if it has no visible markings then how can it be designated 223?
When recorded as Centrefire or Rimfire moderators (how it should be) although easier you can still come unstuck depending on how your conditions are worded regarding each calibre.

When your conditions say: The 223 calibre rifle, ammunition and 223 sound moderator shall be used for......... once again you can only screw on the designated 223 moderator.
If your conditions says: The 223 rifle, ammunition and sound moderator" then you can screw on any mod as long as it is recorded in your authority to posses section as a centrefire moderator, screw on a moderator recorded for your 22-250 and you will be contravening your conditions.

Screw any of your moderators you are allowed to possess onto a rifle conditioned as "The 223 rifle and ammunition shall be used for.........you will be in contravention of your conditions.
All of the above really is complete BS and only applies if you get caught in the act but you should still be aware how easy it to fall foul of your conditions.

For myself i have a licensing office that does not give mods a calibre designation and conditions them like wise, all this comes from my shooting buddy who has examples of all of the above plus more!!!

ian.
 
One of my mods is listed as .22rf but can be used on my air rifle. FEO has confirmed this as has Fettes.

As an aside, I bought my Wildcat P8on ebay brand new for £50 from a non fac holder. All above board with Fettes as well.
 
MY wording is and always has been , i.e R/F Sound Moderator 1 and or C/F Sound Moderator 1 ( end of ) never have been CALIBRE related just Center fire and or Rim fire and then the quantity :)
 
One of my mods is listed as .22rf but can be used on my air rifle. FEO has confirmed this as has Fettes.

As an aside, I bought my Wildcat P8on ebay brand new for £50 from a non fac holder. All above board with Fettes as well.

?
please tell me how an FAC listed moderator can be used on an air rifle unless it is also FAC and listed
sorry but they are wrong on that one

am also confused how a controlled centrefire item can be bought online from a non FAC holder

Wildcat Predator 8 Sound Moderator [001902] - 220.00 : UK Custom Shop Ltd, Incorporating WildCat Custom Rifles

"PLEASE NOTE :- Sound Moderators can only be collected direct from us or sent to your local gun shop for collection, in the latter case please also supply name, address and contact details of the gun shop."
 
I think Whitebeard's explanation is right, and Casual-T's belief that 'each rifle has to be moderator legal' is right too.

I keep reading Section 13.79 below. This seems to say the fact that a .308 Moderator (as an article) is allowed for use on Deer doesn't mean it can be fitted to another 'deer-authorised calibre' rifle and used on deer without authority.

"13.79: Sound moderators should be assigned a calibre, but it is good practice to permit them to be used with more than one calibre of firearm. It is a matter for the individual shooter, subject to the “good reason” test, to decide whether to use a moderator on more than one suitable firearm or to have individual moderators for each firearm".

My County does it differently. My FAC says (in Part 1) - Acquire - ONE - .308 Moderator.

This is intended as a universal Mod for fitting to several rifles up to & including a .308.

I only have one moderator authority for the biggest calibre. The Conditions for each rifle say .... The (x calibre) rifle and moderator shall be used for shooting 'Fox & AOLQ' or 'Deer and AOLQ' ..... as appropriate to the rifle, etc..

The Conditions can in fact support either naming convention .... 'calibre-specific moderators' (as mine) which are universal in use, or 'non-calibre-specific moderators' (as other counties) .... but the moderator must be mentioned in the quarry Condition. It doesn't need to be described by calibre therein.

I don't think I could use a moderator on any of the other rifles other than the .308 unless its' use was specifically authorised. I thought this was the OPs' question. He can't use a .308 Moderator on his .270 without express permission on his FAC..... he can only use his .270 unmoderated according to the Conditions on his FAC.

He needs EITHER a free Variation for a Condition to allow him to screw the .308 Mod onto his .270 for deer use, OR to pay the £26 for a Part 1 Variation to authorise a separate (extra) .270 Mod.... accompanied by the necessary Condition to allow him to use it.
 
Nope

You have permission for the rifle, and you have permission for the moderator. You can quite easily use one moderator on both rifles with only one slot for a mod.

I have a full bore moderator for my .222 and my .243 and can use it on my air rifle if I so choose


You do NOT need a slot for moderator on both rifles.

Absolutely correct.

I don't understand why people continually seek complication where there is none.
 
?
please tell me how an FAC listed moderator can be used on an air rifle unless it is also FAC and listed
sorry but they are wrong on that one


I defy most rozzers to distinguish between a 22 air rifle mod and a 22 rimfire mod, given that most of them have no unique identification.


Absolutely
but its not that as we know

I use a Wierauch air rifle mod on my .22lr
but in order to do so it is on my FAC

should I come to sell this technically I would have to sell it as an FAC rimfre or FAC air rifle mod

Legally I can not just add a non FAC listed moderator to a FAC rifle or vice versa
One is for use on FAC, one is not

air rifle mods can be sold over the counter (god alone knows why they can't be posted but hey ho!)
a CF mod can only be posted to its existing owner not to a buyer
 
That feo obviously thinks that size matters :).
I dread to think how it's going to go when they put it all onto the average beat bobby.
When it was done that way years ago I had to show him where the serial numbers were and he was unconvinced that some guns didn't have any. That just didn't compute in the official mind.

My beat bobby once asked if I would kindly point out which were rifles and which were shotguns!!! Things are much better now!

He did however turn his blues and twos on for the amusement of my son as he left. :D
 
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