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Thread: is it the process or the end result?

  1. #1
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    is it the process or the end result?

    I guess I am trying to establish which is the most important /informative part of the process of shooting deer

    For me (not having shot my first deer) it is the process.

    I used to fish a lot. On forums I frequented, I was forever hearing people saying, " even though I didn't catch I learnt something new". I have to admit I didn't fall into that category, I didn't feel I learnt something new every time I blanked.

    I have to admit though I am currently on a huge and steep learning curve , I feel I am getting closer, but just being out there is helping me pick up on what I need to look out for or what I need to do.

    Are you "old hands" still learning through the process of getting to the deer, or is it just auto pilot to the point of pulling the trigger.

    What makes it a successful outing, I'm sure different people will need different outcomes (culls/taking out clients) but is sitting in a high seat a waiting, enough?

    Sorry, I'm on my fourth morning of a pre 5am wake up thanks to my little UN so my brain is a bit fried. I guess I can thank her for conditioning me for the earlier Sun rises!

  2. #2
    It's 44 years since I was bitten by the deer bug & my condition is continually getting worse. I believe that I am learning more about deer & at a faster rate now than ever before. Or perhaps I really should say that the more I learn about deer the more I realise that in reality I know very little about them.

    For anyone beginning something like hunting & fishing there are several steps of progression (I believe this idea is borrowed from Buddhism?)

    Step 1. I want to shoot a deer.
    Step 2. I want to shoot lots of deer.
    Step 3. I want to shoot the biggest deer.
    Step 4. I want to see you shoot a deer.
    Step 5. I don't care if I shoot a deer I just like deer hunting.

    There are a couple more steps but you get the point. I see folks stuck on step 2 or 3 all the time. Sometimes they hang around for years but usually they just drift away after shooting their trophies. I think they miss out on a lot.

    These days I have very little interest in deer once they are dead, yet I still shoot a "few" but not for trophies these days. I'm one of the lucky ones who still get excited every time I see a deer & I get far more pleasure from constructing a justification for letting them live than killing them. I have my own deer & every day I'm still amazed at the sight of them. I still get nervous every time I go to capture a live deer, & I guess when the nerves stop it'll be time to give it up.

    I don't think old hands ever loose respect for the deer or operate on auto pilot, folks who operate this way never become "old hands".

    Sharkey
    "Men Who Stare at Deer."

  3. #3
    I enjoy taking people out, but still love tracking a deer and pulling the trigger, I could never sit in a highseat, and have only managed to sit there for a max of 10mins, am I still learning, yes as I am not dead yet, but as you get older, you learn the most important lesson, which is take a youngster with you to pull the deer out.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    I enjoy taking people out, but still love tracking a deer and pulling the trigger, I could never sit in a highseat, and have only managed to sit there for a max of 10mins, am I still learning, yes as I am not dead yet, but as you get older, you learn the most important lesson, which is take a youngster with you to pull the deer out.
    I am way taff on this one,only to add when you stop learning about stalking you are no longer stalking

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joed View Post
    I guess I am trying to establish which is the most important /informative part of the process of shooting deer

    For me (not having shot my first deer) it is the process.

    I used to fish a lot. On forums I frequented, I was forever hearing people saying, " even though I didn't catch I learnt something new". I have to admit I didn't fall into that category, I didn't feel I learnt something new every time I blanked.

    I have to admit though I am currently on a huge and steep learning curve , I feel I am getting closer, but just being out there is helping me pick up on what I need to look out for or what I need to do.

    Are you "old hands" still learning through the process of getting to the deer, or is it just auto pilot to the point of pulling the trigger.

    What makes it a successful outing, I'm sure different people will need different outcomes (culls/taking out clients) but is sitting in a high seat a waiting, enough?

    Sorry, I'm on my fourth morning of a pre 5am wake up thanks to my little UN so my brain is a bit fried. I guess I can thank her for conditioning me for the earlier Sun rises!
    Joe, I think Sharkey has this spot on - and another recent thread 'am I a hunter or a killer' is on a similar vein.

    For me there are two aspects to your question. First and foremost, and this applies to all quarry - it is the thrill of the chase that gives me the most enjoyment. I have a particular passion for deer, but there have been a number of occasions where I have completed a good stalk, placed the crosshairs on the creature, and not pulled the trigger (enter all my cynical 'friends' who tell me this is common!). The pulling of the trigger a very small part of the experience and is the culmination of the enjoyment of a stalk. I have a particular beef with those who do not respect the animal in its last moments of life and in death as that is part of it too. Remember Deer are creatures with their own minds and are therefore unpredictable - stalking will never be a process. While I may do some things automatically, I always review a stalk and see if I could have done anything differently or better to increase my chances - it is unlikely to be a certainty you will shoot something every time - I know very few that do.

    The other aspect is where there is a job to be done, be it guiding someone or carrying out a cull. The first of these gives me enjoyment from helping someone else get the best from themselves and getting them thinking and learning about what they do. Some want to just shoot a deer, so I try an facilitate that - but I fear they are missing the point and not getting the full enjoyment. The latter part is more of a job - the outcome is to get as many deer on the ground as possible, so a little switch is flicked and you have to focus on slightly different things and perhaps be a little less emotional about it. I get no satisfaction from a cull other than that of a job well done - and nothing like I can get from a 'free chase'. While some of the processes are the same the mentality is different - perhaps stepping back to Sharkey's 1 or 2. I can only recommend you try to get to no.5 soon (understanding that you need to shoot some deer to do that!). Step 3 has never been on my radar, but it is a common one.

    Sitting in a high seat is not stalking - so refer to last point re: culling. It can be enough, but is no where near as satisfying as rummaging in the undergrowth (which for those of a certain age will automatically be said in a deep accent and as if through a big red beard!).

    If you can just relax and enjoy the morning rather than focussing entirely on 'the shot', you may find more happens - be patient and enjoy every moment of the stalking process. Here for a brew and a chat as needed as per previous PM.
    Nooooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! Our main weapon is.........

  6. #6
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    I have done every step that Sharkey has said.
    By far the most enjoyable are steps 4 and 5. Luckily I am stuck on those.
    Relax and take your time. Getting more and more tense about not having got anything will not help you. When your time finally comes, you may be so wound up you may miss.
    With all due respect, from your fishing experiences I am not sure that deer stalking will be your thing.
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

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    I haven't read the Hunter/killer thread so I should have really! I was lying awake thinking of what I have been doing and whilst I was frustrated for a number of reason last time I was out and could of had a deer, I have to be 100% happy to take a shot.

    However I have had a few exciting and inciteful stalking experiences recently where I really did Learn a lot. I hope that this continues and I will always be happy with going out and loving it even if a shot doesn't present itself.

    I will admit at this point that my rummages through the undergrowth are more like an angry bear trying to find honey....so that is definitely something I can refine!

    Simon, our paths will cross! I'm sure of that!!

  8. #8
    reminds me of another analogy.....

    is it the chase, the "process" or the "finish" that is more important!?!?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by teyhan1 View Post
    I have done every step that Sharkey has said.
    By far the most enjoyable are steps 4 and 5. Luckily I am stuck on those.
    Relax and take your time. Getting more and more tense about not having got anything will not help you. When your time finally comes, you may be so wound up you may miss.
    With all due respect, from your fishing experiences I am not sure that deer stalking will be your thing.
    I'm not sure my fishing experiences relate directly. I am just honest that at times I went and went through the motions.

    One thing I will never do is rush a shot and I am not so keen to grass a deer that I will take half measures, I think Barry can confirm that as last time he was sure I would take one.

    Hey each time out at the minute is a lesson and one I really enjoy despite some frustration, but the frustration is with myself.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    reminds me of another analogy.....

    is it the chase, the "process" or the "finish" that is more important!?!?
    Used to be the smoke afterwards, then I gave up.
    I never make the same mistake twice.

    I make it five or six times.

    Just to be sure.


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