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Thread: Bow hunter's second chance - Bull Elk.

  1. #1

    Bow hunter's second chance - Bull Elk.

    I came across this video purely by chance this morning and it got my thoughts going! I don't want to play "Devils Advocate" but it does raise a few questions/concerns in my mind, I would be interested in others thoughts.
    AS Deer Stalkers/Hunters/Killers (Call us what you like) we all try to do what we do as humanely as possible. This video has raised "questions" in my mind as to if Bow Hunting for Deer is Humane or not? Maybe some of you guys from "across the pond" could clarify a few points by answering a few questions for me please.

    What sort of power do your bows have and is there any sort of "regulation" as to what the minimum power of a bow should be for hunting Bull Elk with? And of course what about the weight, size/type of head on your arrows - Are they regulated in the same way as we have regulations on the calibre of rifle for Deer and the minimum weight of bullet that we are told to use for hunting deer in the UK?
    Is it common practice to just wound a deer and have it run off "untracked" after being shot with a bow and arrow in the way that the Bull Elk in the video does? I accept the we are all capable of "pulling a shot" occasionally, even with a rifle, but is this a common occurance with bow hunting - And if this is a "regular and accepted occurance" can it really be classed as "Humane" form of hunting?
    How often do you think you might be fortunate enough to get a "second chance" at a Bull Elk and eventually kill it after you had already taken a shot at it and wounded it with a bow and arrow?

    I am not faulting anyone, just trying to understand the way that things work over in the states and if there is any concerns about the Humane Killing of Deer while Bow Hunting. What are others thoughts pleaase, and let's not turn this into any sort of "Witch Hunt" or "Slanging Match".

    I will add that the bull Elk in the vidoe is certainly one that any of us over here in the UK would have been extremely proud to have shot - A truly magnificent beast!




  2. #2
    Not from across the pond Frenchi but you get runners with rifles and bows.. my only real observation would be that that first shot hit too far forward and the mechanical broadhead appears to have failed to open when it has hit bone.

    I am all for bow hunting and it can be ethical and just as humane as using rifles. That was quite a stretch range wise though which wouldn't have helped. The point remains though that the beast would have probably dropped on the first shot with a rifle as it would have destroyed at least one shoulder. Even if it had run, chances are it wouldn't have made it far. Second shot was good and that wound channel was as good as a bullet could have produced.. it looked like a double lung shot though, so I am surprised it took so long to die.. again, probably would have been much quicker with a bullet.

    70-80lb bow you are looking at somewhere around 130 ft/lbs at the string but remember, with a bow you aren't looking for energy transfer. Whilst it is important to get the broadhead to work and get as much penetration as possible, it is the blades of the broadhead that do the work by cutting a wound channel in the beast allowing for as much blood loss as possible. The main mechanism of killing with a bullet is the same... you are looking to create a permanent wound channel to create a catastrophic drop in blood pressure and massive blood loss, however, you need a fraction of the energy to achieve that with an arrow over a bullet... take a tomato and try to push an average soft point bullet through it... then do the same exercise with a razor sharp knife and you'll get the idea.

  3. #3
    Yep agreed Vipa, poor decisions, poor shot, etc can be made equally by a bow hunter as a rifle hunter, a man should now his limitations and not get over taken by buck fever, it was too long a shot, but equally there are plenty of videos showing rifle shots taken too far away.
    I considered hunting my Elk with archery, but realising i didn't have sufficient experience i chose the rifle, but with more experience i see no problem with it at all.
    Cheers
    Richard

  4. #4
    Just an observation (after watching quite a lot of online videos from usa), it doesn't seem commonplace for dogs to be used to track wounded deer. Is there a reason for this?

    Obviously this may not have resulted in finding the elk after the first arrow (as it was clearly not wounded severely when it was later shot) more of a general observation
    Last edited by palmer_mike; 24-03-2015 at 11:38.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    Just an observation (after watching quite a lot of online videos from usa), it doesn't seem commonplace for dogs to be used to track wounded deer. Is there a reason for this?

    Obviously this may not have resulted in finding the elk after the first arrow (as it was clearly not wounded severely when it was later shot) more of a general observation
    I remember reading on a previous thread that in certain states hunting deer with dogs is illegal and even the presence of a dog can be viewed as illegal. One particular video the hunter returned unarmed the following day with a dog to negate this.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nun_hunter View Post
    I remember reading on a previous thread that in certain states hunting deer with dogs is illegal and even the presence of a dog can be viewed as illegal. One particular video the hunter returned unarmed the following day with a dog to negate this.
    Interesting, thanks for that!

  8. #8
    SD Regular Greener Jim's Avatar
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    I agree with vipa on this.

    I see the lure of bow hunting. I'd rather use a rifle but with practice I'd happily use a bow.
    I've been tempted a few times to get one and practice at my local club.
    The only reason I haven't is because I love my rifle too much and would take her whenever possible.
    It may not be as humane as using a rifle but it is still very humane when done right. That is, to get close and embrace that you'll see more deer walk away than you will grassed, not through fault of the weapon but your choosing to let it go.
    I feel the same about muzzleloaders.

    All different walks of life isn't it. Bow hunters say using a crossbow makes it too easier, guys with muzzleloaders say that bows aren't powerful enough, singleshot owners relish the challenge of one shot but want a pre-rolled cartridge ready t go and bolt action guys can't see why you'd limit yourself at all. Those groups split down even further aswell as we all know.
    Most is just friendly banter. We all do the same thing and, so long as you mould your style around your and your chosen implements limitations, they will all get the job done.

    My best shooting mate and I regularly 'argue' about what a good rifle/cartridge entails. Obviously I'm right but I accept his incorrect reasoning

  9. #9
    From what i have seen online, if they are on public land in the USA there are limits on dog being allowed for hunting, unsure if following up falls under this bracket. From what i heard on the video i think they are on the public. I have seen a couple of online hunting shows were if they couldn't find it sending someone to get a dog.

    Give it a couple of hours and the gents from over the water will explain.

    Andy7mm
    "Amazing things can happen when preparation meet opportunity" Richard Schatz


    "The will to win, compares little with the will to prepare to win" Donovan Moran

  10. #10
    Really entertaining video though. And the pleasure on the guys face says it all.

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