OK what would you do?

RED-DOT

Well-Known Member
We control fox on a large estate and have been for 15 years with no complaints. An employee of the estate is good with paperwork and landed the owner a huge grant and was rewarded with a .22.250 and unlimited ammo... He is pinging away at anything that moves and was out with a pal on Friday night (pitch dark) and this morning a Roe DOE gralloch was found over a hedge with two almost full term foetus in the womb... The owner is abroad and the guy who culls strict numbers on there is going to look at the evidence.
Tyre tracks on the soft ground match this new guys Defender and we have no doubt he done this disgusting deed.
Should the owner or the police be informed or should we say nothing?
 
Depends on the owner.

He may think that the huge grant is worth the out of season doe, sadly.




Steve.
 
The owner is now in possession of the grant, and the employee remains just that...an employee.

As thanks for securing the grant, he was given and rifle and ammo, not carte blanche to shoot anything he wants regardless of season and I suspect/hope that the owner would take a pretty dim view of this.

Personally, I'd have a bl**dy loud word with the shooter, telling him he's been caught, and if you ever have the slightest hint of suspicion that he's doing it again, you'll go direct to Plod, bypassing the landowner and any goodwill that might remain.
 
Difficult one... grassing could back-fire but on the other hand keeping schtum won't help the situation either.

I think I'd be inclined to keep my foxing rights and let the deer controller deal with this one.
 
At the moment you have a Doe gralloch and tyre tracks.
Many vehicles take the same tyre. The evidence is not going to inspire the police despite 'your instincts'.
Better would be a carcass, and a recovered bullet; although interestingly the RSPCA would be more interested than PS (I suspect).

It may be you count your losses and stick to Foxing, while you still can; you never know better evidence may present itself downstream, it is my experience that is does.
This I would take to the land owner as you should not want to be causing them grief unnecessarily with PS.
 
Firstly I would play my cards close to my chest and mention this on the world wide web. (Doh!)

You have given more than enough info here for anyone in the know to identify the individuals concerned.

I suspect your 15 years loyal foxing won't count for much if your actions, however correct, honest and well intended, end up costing the employee and landowner a load of grief. Been there, got the t shirt.
 
I take it the owner definitely doesn't have an out-of-season license and a night license then?

As RickoShay said, tyre tracks are not unique. You are sure this guy done the disgusting deed, but what real evidence do you have?

Stick a trail cam up and see what you find, you may be surprised.

In the meantime I'd have a quiet word with the employee, not to accuse him but to say that you've found a deer gralloch on the ground, you think there's someone poaching the ground and ask him to keep an eye out. If he's guilty he'll take the hint, if he's innocent you've not burned any bridges.
 
No night licence or need for. His tyres are 235 Kumho KL71's, pretty rare. He was out Friday night. He is GUILTY of this and of that i'm 100% sure....
 
You have permission to shoot foxes on the land, nothing else, you are not 'security,' it really is none of your business unless you are absolutely sure that a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't,) on the basis that you do know a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't) you have unequivocal evidence/proof that the chap you are accusing committed the act (which you don't) and you knew all possible goings on between the landowner, his employees, his deer (problem?) and his licence arrangements (which you don't)

If I came on a public forum and read this and could work out you were talking about me I'd be talking to the police about possible defamation!

Keep your nose out is all I'd say, bring it to the attention of the landowner next time you see him.... not in an accusatory way but as has already been mentioned, on a 'you MAY have a poaching problem' way and let him deal with it. If you witness poaching obviously being carried out then call the police but otherwise all you have is an out of season gralloch that could have a perfectly legitimate story behind it..

Remember, never ASSUME anything as you know what that does!!!
 
No night licence or need for. His tyres are 235 Kumho KL71's, pretty rare. He was out Friday night. He is GUILTY of this and of that i'm 100% sure....

I have those tyres.... it must have been me.
 
Plus the fact you don't know the in's and out's of the huge grant. There may be something only the land owner and the employee know that they wish to keep quiet. This puts the employee in a very good position, to the extent that what they see as trouble makers will be off site in a flash.
 
best keep your nose out of it and leave it to others. otherwise you may find that you don't have any fox shooting ( he's an employee your not)
 
I take it the owner definitely doesn't have an out-of-season license and a night license then?

As RickoShay said, tyre tracks are not unique. You are sure this guy done the disgusting deed, but what real evidence do you have?

Stick a trail cam up and see what you find, you may be surprised.

In the meantime I'd have a quiet word with the employee, not to accuse him but to say that you've found a deer gralloch on the ground, you think there's someone poaching the ground and ask him to keep an eye out. If he's guilty he'll take the hint, if he's innocent you've not burned any bridges.

I'm with Willie Play the I am all concerned we have pikeys and or poachers card and between us we need to stop them. We should mention to the boss and let him decide if we should engage plod. in meantime, I'll put up a load of trail cams I have hidden away - keep your eyes open too when you are out Also noticed a set of tyre tracks near the gralloch we found and I have photos we can give boss if he wants to call in plod........

S
 
Spot on in my opinion on all points.
Cheers
Richard
You have permission to shoot foxes on the land, nothing else, you are not 'security,' it really is none of your business unless you are absolutely sure that a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't,) on the basis that you do know a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't) you have unequivocal evidence/proof that the chap you are accusing committed the act (which you don't) and you knew all possible goings on between the landowner, his employees, his deer (problem?) and his licence arrangements (which you don't)

If I came on a public forum and read this and could work out you were talking about me I'd be talking to the police about possible defamation!

Keep your nose out is all I'd say, bring it to the attention of the landowner next time you see him.... not in an accusatory way but as has already been mentioned, on a 'you MAY have a poaching problem' way and let him deal with it. If you witness poaching obviously being carried out then call the police but otherwise all you have is an out of season gralloch that could have a perfectly legitimate story behind it..

Remember, never ASSUME anything as you know what that does!!!
 
A quiet word with the possible offender might be the way to go, Mention that you think there might be poaching at night with non legal calibre guns. 270 min for night shooting. Tell him you've spoken to wildlife crime officer and bull-**** him, He might think twice then. Its a hard one if he is best mates with boss.
 
No night licence or need for. His tyres are 235 Kumho KL71's, pretty rare. He was out Friday night. He is GUILTY of this and of that i'm 100% sure....

And I don't doubt the police who interviewed Stephan Kiszko were 100% sure that he had murdered Lesley Molseed. Only it was impossible for him to have done so. Evidence, m'boy, evidence is what you need. The suggestion that you tell the employee you think there's a deer poacher on the ground sounds, to me, quite a shrewd approach. If he is the culprit, he'll know he's been caught out. Of course, that might make him be more careful rather than give up.

-JMS
 
You have permission to shoot foxes on the land, nothing else, you are not 'security,' it really is none of your business unless you are absolutely sure that a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't,) on the basis that you do know a deer has been shot unlawfully (which you don't) you have unequivocal evidence/proof that the chap you are accusing committed the act (which you don't) and you knew all possible goings on between the landowner, his employees, his deer (problem?) and his licence arrangements (which you don't)

If I came on a public forum and read this and could work out you were talking about me I'd be talking to the police about possible defamation!

Keep your nose out is all I'd say, bring it to the attention of the landowner next time you see him.... not in an accusatory way but as has already been mentioned, on a 'you MAY have a poaching problem' way and let him deal with it. If you witness poaching obviously being carried out then call the police but otherwise all you have is an out of season gralloch that could have a perfectly legitimate story behind it..

Remember, never ASSUME anything as you know what that does!!!

brilliant... all i asked for was advice and i get a lecture from someone who hasn't a scooby about me or the land. My worry is that it may be blamed on me and my lamping partner (who runs the pheasant and partridges) Vipa, until you know a bit more say a bit less...
 
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