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Thread: Are these cases identical

  1. #1

    Are these cases identical

    Gents,

    I have Lapua brass, once fired, which came in the original box which was labelled LAPUA 7.62 x 51 (.308Win). The Head Stamp is LAPUA 7.62 X 51.

    Lapua website lists .308Win (7.62 x 51).

    Have Lapua at some time changed the headstamp and are cases marked as above the same as .308Win ?

  2. #2
    .308 Win is the civilian version of the military 7.62x51

  3. #3
    Yes, I appreciate this but I am curious to know if Lapua made the 7.62 x 51 with heavier brass as is normal for military brass or was it just the continental way of specifying the round before possibly changing it to .308Win as a name change without physical change.

  4. #4
    Check the type of primer used think the 7.62 nato was berdan but not sure

  5. #5
    If you've got a commercial Lapua case you can ultrasonic both, FL resize both, trim both the same length, and weigh them.~Muir

  6. #6
    There was some Lapua 7.62X51 headstamp once-fired brass around in the 1980s from one of these companies who bought 308 cases from police forces, rifle clubs, the NRA and suchlike for resale when Boxer primed 308 was much less common than now and more avidly sought after by handloaders. I've a feeling they may have been FMJ military spec bought by the NRA. IIRC they didn't have the Nato compliant spec mark on the case-head (cross enclosed by a circle) in which case they hadn't been manufactured for military orders. The brass was almost certainly identical to 308 Win markings aside, but having been marked as 7.62X51mm it would have been originally loaded to CIP 7.62 specifications to a slightly lower Maximum Average Pressure than commercial 308 Win allows and it may also have had the 7.62's typically undersize bullets loaded, 0.3073-0.3077" instead of 0.3080" or slightly above.

    The two designations were almost interchangeable back then, but a distinction has since arisen in that 7.62X51mm is now classified as a miltary cartridge and .308 Winchester as a civilian sporting or law enforcement number. As IATA members refuse to carry military weapons and ammunition, they'll reject any cartridges marked as 5.56mm or 7.62mm on flights now. International shooting sports regulatory bodies used to use the dual designations in their rules documents, but some years ago, 5.56 and 7.62 were deleted leaving .223 Remington and .308 Winchester.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by african jack View Post
    Check the type of primer used think the 7.62 nato was berdan but not sure
    You could get 7.62 military stuff in either form. All US manufactured 7.62 was Boxer primed whilst most European was Berdan. It was a purely historic thing going back to the very early days of centrefire metallic ammunition. The US Army recovered and reloaded all of its .45-70 Govt rifle and .45 Colt revolver brass in the late 19th Century and likely into the early 20th. European armies decided that the Berdan system was superior technically and went for it and most factories supplying governments stuck with that method until the adoption of 5.56 which is usually (always?) Boxer. Even today, Radway Green's 7.62 uses Berdan cases. If you were intending to supply the US market though, Boxer was a good idea as handloading was popular earlier over there, and Berdan primed brass had a near nil resale value.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkfoot1 View Post
    Yes, I appreciate this but I am curious to know if Lapua made the 7.62 x 51 with heavier brass as is normal for military brass or was it just the continental way of specifying the round before possibly changing it to .308Win as a name change without physical change.
    Never found miltary brass to be heavier than commercial, in fact goes against the logistics idea behind the idea of the 556 and 762.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    There was some Lapua 7.62X51 headstamp once-fired brass around in the 1980s from one of these companies who bought 308 cases from police forces, rifle clubs, the NRA and suchlike for resale when Boxer primed 308 was much less common than now and more avidly sought after by handloaders. I've a feeling they may have been FMJ military spec bought by the NRA. IIRC they didn't have the Nato compliant spec mark on the case-head (cross enclosed by a circle) in which case they hadn't been manufactured for military orders. The brass was almost certainly identical to 308 Win markings aside, but having been marked as 7.62X51mm it would have been originally loaded to CIP 7.62 specifications to a slightly lower Maximum Average Pressure than commercial 308 Win allows and it may also have had the 7.62's typically undersize bullets loaded, 0.3073-0.3077" instead of 0.3080" or slightly above.

    The two designations were almost interchangeable back then, but a distinction has since arisen in that 7.62X51mm is now classified as a miltary cartridge and .308 Winchester as a civilian sporting or law enforcement number. As IATA members refuse to carry military weapons and ammunition, they'll reject any cartridges marked as 5.56mm or 7.62mm on flights now. International shooting sports regulatory bodies used to use the dual designations in their rules documents, but some years ago, 5.56 and 7.62 were deleted leaving .223 Remington and .308 Winchester.
    Many thanks Laurie.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    The two designations were almost interchangeable back then, but a distinction has since arisen in that 7.62X51mm is now classified as a miltary cartridge and .308 Winchester as a civilian sporting or law enforcement number. As IATA members refuse to carry military weapons and ammunition, they'll reject any cartridges marked as 5.56mm or 7.62mm on flights now. International shooting sports regulatory bodies used to use the dual designations in their rules documents, but some years ago, 5.56 and 7.62 were deleted leaving .223 Remington and .308 Winchester.
    All interesting stuff, Laurie. I bought some Sellier & Bellot bulk packs of .223 recently. The boxes are marked .223 Rem but the brass is headstamped 5.56x45. This is the second batch of bulkpack S&B .223 that I've bought. The previous lot were headstamped .223 Rem

    I've also got some GGG 7.62x51 which I bought from the NRA last September. The boxes are marked 7.62x51 NATO BALL and bear the NATO conformance mark and the black spot (denoting inert ball). The brass is headstamped GGG 14 7,62 and the NATO conformance mark. But the brass is Boxer primed so could be reloaded (once the primer crimp is removed) if one wanted.

    -JMS

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