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Thread: Varget

  1. #1

    Varget

    Please help anyone know where I can get some in the north west if it's a no go any recommendations on a replacement powder

  2. #2
    Edgar Bros the Hodgon / IMR importer (not just UK, but for continental Europe too) has 15,000 lb on back-order for VarGet alone now, such is the shortage. (There are equally severe shortages but not involving quite as high numbers for H4895, H4350, and H4831sc.)

    It's not that NO VarGet is coming into the country, rather the amount being allocated to Europe is so much less than the demand that Edgars rations it to gunshops when it does get here and they in turn usually sell out in 24 or 48 hours as soon as the word gets around. So, if you must have this grade, ask around your local dealers and see if you can pre-order some or at least get a 'tip' when the occasional shipment does appear.

    Hodgdon Powder Co. is substituting IMR powders wherever possible, so there are a lot more tubs of the IMR versions of 4895, 4350, and 4831 arriving. The trouble with VarGet is that there is no directly equivalent IMR grade, and not many from other companies either. One that I have found a good substitute is Reload Swiss RS52 and which being a high-energy powder with RS's patented Ei through the kernel deterrent infusion process gives very high MVs. It will likely be less temperature tolerant than VarGet though if that is an issue.

    However, to come up with any other suggestions, you'll have to let the rest of us know what cartridge / bullet you use VarGet in. Some cartridges have huge numbers of good alternatives, others only a few.

  3. #3
    Hi Laurie

    What alternative with most similar characteristics to Varget would you suggest for the 6X47 Swiss Match please?

    Thanks

    K

  4. #4
    I have found IMR 4064 to be a good substitute in my 308. If there is a difference in grouping i can't discern it.~Muir

  5. #5
    PM'd.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  6. #6
    The 6X47 Swiss Match's case capacity (nominally 46gn water) is a little less than that of the 6-6.5X47 Lapua (48gn) and 6XC Tubb (50gn) so likely appreciates similar powders, maybe marginally faster burning.

    The powder you want depends too on bullet weight of course - 105-108gn match pills need much slower burners than 55-75gn Varmint bullets.

    Generally, VarGet would be seen as a bit fast burning with everything other than light varmint bullets for this trio. Viht N550 and Alliant Re17 / Elcho 17 / Reload Swiss RS60 are reckoned the best performers in the necked down Lapua number and the Tubb XC, but generally anything with a burning rate around that of the 4350s works well.

    Playing around with QuickLOAD and various bullet weights .........

    55gn Nosler CT ........................ IMR-3031 / 4895 / 4064. Reload Swiss RS52

    70gn Nosler Ballistic Tip ............ As for the 55s, and add N150, N550, Re17/RS60

    90gn Nosler Ballistic Tip ............ Reload Swiss RS52/60/62, N550, IMR-4350 / 4831, Re15

    105gn Berger VLD ................... Reload Swiss RS52/60/62/70, N160, N550, IMR-4350/4831.

    RS60 / E17 / Re17 gives really high MVs and small groups in these numbers for target shooting. It can be a bit difficult to tune the load though as it's often a small window, and they will reduce barrel life considerably if full pressures and MVs are used, likewise N550

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    The 6X47 Swiss Match's case capacity (nominally 46gn water) is a little less than that of the 6-6.5X47 Lapua (48gn) and 6XC Tubb (50gn) so likely appreciates similar powders, maybe marginally faster burning.

    The powder you want depends too on bullet weight of course - 105-108gn match pills need much slower burners than 55-75gn Varmint bullets.

    Generally, VarGet would be seen as a bit fast burning with everything other than light varmint bullets for this trio. Viht N550 and Alliant Re17 / Elcho 17 / Reload Swiss RS60 are reckoned the best performers in the necked down Lapua number and the Tubb XC, but generally anything with a burning rate around that of the 4350s works well.

    Playing around with QuickLOAD and various bullet weights .........

    55gn Nosler CT ........................ IMR-3031 / 4895 / 4064. Reload Swiss RS52

    70gn Nosler Ballistic Tip ............ As for the 55s, and add N150, N550, Re17/RS60

    90gn Nosler Ballistic Tip ............ Reload Swiss RS52/60/62, N550, IMR-4350 / 4831, Re15

    105gn Berger VLD ................... Reload Swiss RS52/60/62/70, N160, N550, IMR-4350/4831.

    RS60 / E17 / Re17 gives really high MVs and small groups in these numbers for target shooting. It can be a bit difficult to tune the load though as it's often a small window, and they will reduce barrel life considerably if full pressures and MVs are used, likewise N550
    Thanks

    It's for my K250 wildcat that is based on the Ruag 6X47SM case. I ONLY shoot 85/87g bullets.

    My Varget load is 38.5 grains.

    Cheers

    K

  8. #8
    http://www.varmintsforfun.com/6x47lapua.html

    Depending on how the Wildcat's case capacity varies from the basic 6mm SM, 6X47L loads won't be that different, a half grain, 1gn tops higher.

    Here's the top 20 or so powders in velocity results as calculated by QuickLOAD for the basic 6mm Swiss Match with the 87gn Hornady HPBT at 54,000 psi (2,000 down on max) at the cartridge's nominal COAL. Usual caveats about QuickLOAD data apply and starting 10% lower before working up.



    Cartridge : 6 x 47 SM
    Bullet : .243, 87, Hornady BTHP 2442
    Useable Case Capaci: 43.663 grain H2O = 2.835 cm³
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.598 inch = 65.99 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 54000 psi, or 372 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
    108 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    ReloadSwiss RS 60 97.7 41.3 2.67 3270 100.0 54000 10819 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 96.8 40.9 2.65 3247 99.9 54000 10740 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Elcho 17 96.8 40.9 2.65 3247 99.9 54000 10740 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 70 100.4 43.1 2.79 3238 98.3 54000 11098 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 104.2 41.7 2.70 3230 100.0 54000 10296 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 62 99.2 41.8 2.71 3204 99.0 54000 10588 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 511 98.2 42.1 2.73 3193 97.3 54000 10677 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 101.5 42.2 2.73 3191 97.3 54000 10660 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 95.7 40.7 2.64 3182 96.4 54000 10611 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 95.7 40.7 2.64 3182 96.4 54000 10611 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 101.0 40.2 2.60 3182 98.7 54000 10398 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 101.0 40.2 2.61 3181 98.7 54000 10395 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350 100.7 40.5 2.63 3181 98.8 54000 10438 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 97.9 40.3 2.61 3178 98.6 54000 10483 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
    ReloadSwiss RS 52 93.1 38.7 2.51 3166 99.6 54000 10032 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 104.9 42.0 2.72 3165 94.0 54000 10574 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 94.1 39.1 2.53 3165 99.5 54000 10071 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon CFE223 85.9 38.5 2.50 3161 99.7 54000 9964 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game 91.1 39.0 2.53 3159 99.4 54000 9975 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 103.9 40.4 2.62 3155 99.8 54000 9724 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 90.5 36.4 2.36 3154 99.5 54000 9988 1.117 ! Near Maximum !

    The 1st figure is the fill-ratio in %, the second the charge in grains that produces 54,000 psi.

    In other cartridges that I've tried it in, (308 /223 / 6.5X47L) I usually ended up at previous Varget charges with RS52, and it's predicted as 38.7gn here for 3,166 fps from a 24-inch barrel, close to your present VarGet charge weight.

  9. #9
    Just managed to get a couple of tubs of a sd member thanks but out of curiosity it will be used in a 6.5/47 that I'm in the process of having built but if varget supply isn't going to get any better then I may have to look for an alternative

  10. #10
    AR 2208. Varget. IMR 4064 AA 2520

    This may help
    Powder eqivilants, taken from ADI load data site ...
    ADI make a lot of powders sold under different brand names,
    Last edited by treetop; 01-05-2015 at 09:20.

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