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Thread: Chinese water deer and the BDS

  1. #1

    Chinese water deer and the BDS

    Help me understand please! Am I right to suggest that Chinese water deer and Muntjac are on the list to be eradicated from the UK if possible, the Woodland Trust and Forestry commission would like to see them gone as they are not native species, so why do the BDS make it look like they are protecting them for future generations on their Chinese water deer leaflet:

    As the leading wild deer organisation in the UK, the British Deer Society works to enable the deer of the United Kingdom to exist and flourish in today’s environment ensuring their future is secure for generations to come.


    There are six species of deer living freely in the British countryside. Each species has specific characteristics which make it well-suited for the variety of habitats found across the country and highly adaptable to environmental changes. A mixture of native and introduced species, they make a valuable contribution to Britain’s biodiversity and are some of our most engaging British mammals.

    So the question is do we what them or not?.
    Last edited by John Norris; 30-04-2015 at 22:38.

  2. #2
    I am not sure if there is a "list" for eradication and certainly muntjac are way past the point where there is any serious possibility of eradication. The BDS is a charitable organisation amongst the objectives of which is the welfare of deer, they are hardly likely to promote eradication. If alien species are to be on such a list then only roe and red deer are safe.

  3. #3
    Ok I see, so the BDS will support any deer however or wherever they come from, just seems odd to me. I suppose then that the BDS and the Woodland Trust and others are not in support of each other. I know some stalkers like to see more and more and others try hard to eradicate them.

  4. #4
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    There is no eradication list. The closest is probably the work of the Non-Native Species Secretariat, see GB non-native species secretariat. They create Invasive Species Action Plans (ISAP's) where necessary, but there are currently none for deer, see Invasive Species Action Plans - GB non-native species secretariat

    Scotland has investigated an eradication campaign, should muntjac reach the border: http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publicati...eports/457.pdf

    BDS, on the other hand, is first and foremost a deer welfare charity. Even for non-native species there remains the requirement to understand and manage deer in accordance with their environment.

    As said above, if we want to cleanse the country of non-native deer then only roe and red will exist, and with roe it remains questionable as to whether the strains here really are native.

    If you wish to see any non-native deer eradicated then I suggest you will first need to lobby to get them classified as vermin, rather than deer. That way the majority of the restrictions on controlling deer as a species, that are currently in place under the various Deer Acts and related legislation, will no longer apply.

    I am not quite sure why you suggest that BDS and the Woodland Trust are not in support of each other? The BDS is not against deer control, even if in certain circumstances that means the removal of all deer to protect crops or forestry, so long as such control is carried out in accordance with best practice. Neither does the Woodland Trust want to see the eradication of all deer, see for example https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/med...-statement.pdf

    Why do you think there is conflict?
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 01-05-2015 at 04:32.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  5. #5
    Ok I stand corrected, thank you for all the information, it's not me so much as it is the people we have to cull for! I'm informed we have to stop at all cost CWD should getting to there estate, and try as I might they think we can clear it of Muntjac.

  6. #6
    On a related subject, the NRW, successors to the Forestry Commission in Wales, recently declared in their response to a FOI request that their policy on all deer and boar was "to prevent the expansion of their range into areas not currently occupied". The problem with this is that it is contrary to the European Habitats Directive which requires that indigenous species are actively encouraged to expand their range so they are acting illegally by preventing red and roe deer from expanding their ranges. It might also be argued to apply to the previously indigenous boar and fallow that have been here for almost a millennium.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by John Norris View Post
    Ok I stand corrected, thank you for all the information, it's not me so much as it is the people we have to cull for! I'm informed we have to stop at all cost CWD should getting to there estate, and try as I might they think we can clear it of Muntjac.
    The problem with muntjac is that if you clear an area the deer will just fill back in from neighbouring areas especially if you are near urban areas where muntjac can happily live and act as a reservoir for repopulating areas heavily culled.

  8. #8
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Norris View Post
    Ok I stand corrected, thank you for all the information, it's not me so much as it is the people we have to cull for! I'm informed we have to stop at all cost CWD should getting to there estate, and try as I might they think we can clear it of Muntjac.
    Very best of luck with that! Unless the estate is somehow secure in terms of borders then I think you're fighting a losing battle, at least with the muntjac. I have no experience with CWD so can't help there, but muntjac are prolific and persistent!
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  9. #9
    Maybe we should have adopted the Scotish proposal in the past!


    1. Scottish Natural Heritage








      • Plans to eradicate muntjac outbreaks could be usefully informed by a surveillancesystem to detect their presence and quantify their abundance and distribution. Wepropose a staged process, with each step requiring enhanced investment, butyielding more robust results. However, such a system requires development andvalidation before it could be deployed.





      The culling of muntjac may require different approaches to those traditionally used forother deer species in Scotland. Stalkers that may be involved in muntjac eradicationcampaigns may benefit from training and experience in muntjac stalking. Othermanagement techniques, such as trapping, should also be considered.


  10. #10
    Thanks Willie_gun, that exactly how I tell it to them! But I am aware of many stalkers worrying about numbers getting low and stop culling to protect their shooting interest, and another problem is that some people like to see them (CWD & Muntjac) on their land, it would be interesting to know what percentage of land in England is even shot over.

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