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Thread: Confronting "Dog Men"?

  1. #1

    Confronting "Dog Men"?

    Have you ever had the need to confront "dog men" (men with terriers and lurchers) on your permissions and if so how did you handle the situation?

    I was faced with a "situation" yesterday which put me in a difficult position where I had to act on behalf or (And on the request of) the landowner where I have "sole permission". I should add that this land owner (Lynne) is a personal friend of my family!
    It all started on Saturday when I got a phone call from the Lynne saying that she had been approached by a shooter (A member of this forum) who had been contacted by a neighbouring smallholder (who only rents a small field of about 3 or 4 acres) to try to deal with a problem fox. The shooter/SD member had the good common sense and courtesy to visit Lynne to confirm that it was OK to cross her land to try to shoot the "rogue fox". The landowner explained that I had the sole permission on her land but as he had come quite a long distance she would allow him to go on her land after the fox that evening as a "one off permission". Lynne phoned me straight away and told me as she was concerned that her action might upset me. I told her not to worry as it was after all her land and that I had no problem with it as long as he did not disturb the roe deer that had fawns in the wood. As for the shooter/member of SD if you read this please be reassured that I have no issue with you in any way, especially as you had the good sense to visit and speak to Lynne first even though you had been told by the smallholder that it would be OK to go on Lynne's land.
    The brown stuff hit the fan yesterday morning (While i was out on another permission doing some rabbit shooting) when I got another phone call from Lynne! She told me that she had received a text from the smallholder saying that she had some lads with dogs coming and that they were going to be having a "mooch about looking for foxes through the woods and on the rest of lynne's land"! Lynne thought this was well out of order and that I should be "aware of the situation immediately" and because I had sole permission maybe I might like to "keep an eye on things". I thanked her for letting me know and packed in the rabbit shooting and went straight home to get my head cam and then went straight to Lynnes property.

    After walking around for about half an hour and watching a couple of the roe deer while chatting to an innocent (And very polite) dog walker I spotted the three lads with dogs crossing the fence onto my permission. I made my appologies to the dog walker for having to rush off and immediately turned my head cam on to record and went straight towards the lads with the dogs. (My rifle was already unloaded and made safe)!
    When they saw me they made no attempt to avoid me or hide, and walked straight towards me. When we met I straight away politely asked them if they had permission to be on the land with their dogs. (They had a large lurcher and three terriers as well as a spade to dig with) They said that they did have permission so I asked who they had got the permission from. Their reply was that they had permission from the smallholder in the caravan. My reply was "Unfortunately you do not have permission to be here as the smallholder has no authority to give you permission on this land which she does not own or have anything to do with and that the land is owned by Mrs ***** **** who lives in the house that they could see above us! Their reply was that the smallholder had told them that she had asked Lynne if it was Ok and that she had been told that it was fine - (Which I knew straight away was a downright lie from the small holder)
    They tried to argue the point a little (One of them did start to get a little "bolshy and mouthy" until he realised that I had a head cam running) but I explained that there was no question about it, they were plain and simply trespassing and I and the landowner would like them to leave straight away - and certainly not via the woods as there is no public footpath through the woods.

    With that they did leave and went back round the outskirts heading towards the smallholders caravan.

    The landowner phoned me shortly afterwards and I told her what had been said and was all on video and that the "sitaution had been dealt with" and that they had left the property.

    Now the way that I see it is that even though these three lads were trespassing it was not directly their fault as they were in the belief that permission had been granted for them to be there. However the land that they had been on prior to coming on to my permission I know that they did not have permission on either as it is yet another of my permissions.

    What would you have done if you found and confronted "dog men" on your permission, and of course given these circumstances who would you judge to be in the wrong?

    (I do have the full "confrontation" on video but I would rather not release it for public viewing unless I have to, and even then not until the landowner has had a chance to see it)

    p.s. If the moderators feel this thread is in the wrong section please do feel free to move it!
    Last edited by FrenchieBoy; 11-05-2015 at 10:41.



  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchieBoy View Post

    What would you have done if you found and confronted "dog men" on your permission, and of course given these circumstances who would you judge to be in the wrong?

    Illegal pig dogging is the largest threat to my rural enterprise. Way more than drought or fire. I always respect the law, but at the first instance of any loss of control of their dogs by these trespassers/poachers & any potential threat to my stock (deer) I shoot the dogs. Simple!

    Yes, I have had some pretty nasty confrontations, but I haven't had too many problems with doggers lately. It will happen again though.

    Sharkey
    "Men Who Stare at Deer."

  3. #3
    Not the "Dog men" I had in mind when I started reading this

    sounds like mates of a landowner

    The DogMen I think of don't ask permission from anyone and certainly don't turn around and head home when confronted!

    As a foolish youth I (accompanied by my brother and another chap) collected two lurchers we had seen running hares when they appeared lost on the road on the opposite side of the blocks of fields they and their owners were in.
    This was broad daylight

    We had the bright idea that we would deliver them to the Police about 5 miles away
    Which we duly did.
    on driving back we passed the van of "boys" looking for dogs and politely told them they would find their trespassing dogs at the Police Station.....
    that is where the fun began!
    to say they were displeased would be an understatement.

    Then began a van chase as we tried to get away from them, including a short stretch of North bound driving on the south bound carriageway of the A1 where a pair of bolt cutters was thrown at our van and punched a hole through the metal side!
    long story short it all ended up in a Mexican stand off at a property where the Police were called and the "boys" disappeared.

    for the next 6 months I woke up every morning expecting to see burnt out cars and carnage. luckily it never happened!
    not my finest decisions but youth and all that!

    sound like you did the right thing

  4. #4
    FB, I think in your situation I might have put across as theres been a bit of a misunderstanding between the smallholder and them, as you say they were told one thing (wrongly) and did leave without incident. Why the landowner didn't say no to the mooch about when she was told is a little odd.
    If I see anyone on mine, I call the Police

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Akeld View Post
    FB, I think in your situation I might have put across as theres been a bit of a misunderstanding between the smallholder and them, as you say they were told one thing (wrongly) and did leave without incident. Why the landowner didn't say no to the mooch about when she was told is a little odd.
    If I see anyone on mine, I call the Police

    Before or after shooting the dogs?

    Sharkey
    "Men Who Stare at Deer."

  6. #6
    Think you were lucky in that they seemed genuine enou & left.... I'd ask your landowner or do it yourself to mention to the wee landowner in caravan NOT to,give permission that isn't hers to give.
    If it had been of the pikey variety you may have seen some violence .
    Glad it went ok for you....
    Out of curiosity what head cam do you,have / use ?

    Paul

  7. #7
    I bet the tattoo to tooth ratio between "pikiey's" & some of the "bogans" down here is no different. Best way to deal with bullies of any variety is to give them a bloody nose.

    Sharkey
    "Men Who Stare at Deer."

  8. #8
    Sounds like a bit of a mix up, rather than out and out poaching by certain "dog men" chalk it down to experience and move on.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    I bet the tattoo to tooth ratio between "pikiey's" & some of the "bogans" down here is no different. Best way to deal with bullies of any variety is to give them a bloody nose.

    Sharkey
    Wish we were able to apply the Antipodean common sense approach to the dog men,(and all other transgressors), if it were not frowned on by the busy's in the UK, there would be much less of the problems we suffer.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  10. #10
    Forgive me, but aren't they committing a criminal offence when digging up dens and flushing the foxes to a coursing hound. I though had become an offence in the hunting with dogs act. If they flushing them to a gun then probably committing armed trespass.

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