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Thread: New Stalker: probation period question

  1. #1

    New Stalker: probation period question

    Question:

    A prospective stalker who has every intent to purchase a Ctr fire rifle and stalk deer over new land, choses to stalk with the land owner who permits the prospective stalker to stalk the deer accompanied with the use of the land owners rifle; the prospective stalker records the dates, events, species etc and has it witnessed

    Can that record count towards an expected 'documented / accompanied' stalking' period which normally follows an application to shoot ctr fire for deer especially if the new rifle will be used on the same land as stalked previously ?

    Of course any record will be great supporting evidence for an application whether contributory or not to that probation period

    thx, TOMSK

  2. #2
    SD Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Herefordshire, Hampshire or Essex
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    2,746
    It would I guess - but my question is - what probation period? There is no such thing in the guidance. Is this Wilts attempt at implementing a 'mentoring' clause?

    Have 'the probationer' do their DSCL1 - or at least declare intent. Removes all ambiguity....
    Nooooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! Our main weapon is.........

  3. #3
    For clarity its been mentioned that where application for ctr fire + deer stalking is the case, then a mentoring period is applied as a condition

    I used the word 'probation' instead of 'mentor' : nothing was meant by that choice of wording

    TOMSK

  4. #4
    New stalker has DSCL1 and undertaken multiple paid stalks with established local companies which can also be documented if necessary

    TOMSK

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsk View Post
    New stalker has DSCL1 and undertaken multiple paid stalks with established local companies which can also be documented if necessary

    TOMSK
    it all depends on your local FLD.
    when I initially started stalking I lived in Essex. They applied a mentoring condition, but said it would be removed after either passing DSC1 or obtaining letters to prove my experience over a period of time. I passed DSC1 less than a month later and the condition was removed.....

  6. #6
    SD Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Herefordshire, Hampshire or Essex
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    As per MP above, I too saw that applied in Essex - by an FEO no longer in the role.

    I would say this - if the stalker in question already has a DSCL1 (and has previous shooting experience), there is no reason why a mentoring condition should be applied (this being the whim of the FEO, local FLD anyway). Given the record of experience you alluded to in the first instance, I would ask the experienced person doing the initial accompaniment to document their satisfaction of the stalkers capability, assessed through the accompanied stalks, and that they do not require a mentor condition for their permission and see no reason for it elsewhere.

    All due diligence has been applied (and some!) - and if the FEO persists, I would refer the Stalker to his respective Shooting Organisation for assistance with the issue. The Stalker should not be afraid of being robust with the FEO.
    Nooooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! Our main weapon is.........

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    it all depends on your local FLD.
    when I initially started stalking I lived in Essex. They applied a mentoring condition, but said it would be removed after either passing DSC1 or obtaining letters to prove my experience over a period of time. I passed DSC1 less than a month later and the condition was removed.....
    Similar to above, I had a " mentoring condition " which was removed once I had " gained experience"

    mine was removed in 6 weeks with an accompanying letter from a guy who I went out with.

    I did my DSC1 last year as I can see the way things are heading, I already had deer and fox on my ticket.
    Good course and picked up a few tips...

    My new flo did my sgc renewal and was chatting whilst writing notes about my c/fire experience so I just pointed to the cert on the wall, he nodded, took down the number and we carried on chatting...

    None of us can tell you what to do, however the notes can work in your favour if you stand your ground and have a good paper work trail..... not trial!!



    From the 2015 notes

    Forces must ensure that where additional conditions are applied to certificates that they are kept to a minimum and are only applied where they are both proportionate and necessary.

    Where the firearm is authorised for more than one purpose, care must be taken to omit the word ‘only’ in the conditions.
    An asterisk conditions specific firearms on a certificate but may be replaced by the phrase, "The firearms and ammunition….." where a single condition applies to all firearms (and ammunition) on the certificate.
    1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer)

    The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game/ deer (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.


    (The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits).

    Tim.243
    Stalking is very much like going to the night club

    You can always tell an Essex Boy, just you cant tell him much...

    An hour in the field is worth a week of typing trash.....




  8. #8
    Tim

    Thanks for the reply and personal example.
    I can see my approach will be benefitial and a positive when it comes to an amendment to my FAC;

    TOMSK

  9. #9
    If you have previous firearms experience and DSC1 you won't need mentoring in Wilt's.

    For deer my ticket is conditioned that I am accompanied until I pass a recognised deer management qualification so as soon as i do my DSC the condition is removed. the funny thing is I can use the .223 & 6.5 x 55 where and when i choose for fox as i'm on an open ticket!

  10. #10
    Mentoring has been Removed by the Fire arms working group and firmly asked not to be used any more (tho forces can insist on what ever they like)

    most forces are complying with that directive if not they are supposed to inform the Working group why
    unfortunately the letter CC ANdy Marsh (Hants) chair of the committee issued was on the ACOP site but as that no longer exists it as yet hasnt been put back up on the new NPCC site that replaced it

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