Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 50

Thread: Greece

  1. #1

    Greece

    No not the stuff you cook your chips in.
    Why do people seem so worried about the national debt of Greece?
    They're 575billion in debt which is about 47k per person and 174% of gdp yet we, in the United Kingdom are 9.7 trillion in debt which is about 160k per person and 400% gdp!

    Can someone explain to me why we are no more in the crap (a lot more it seems to me) than Greece?
    Below is a link to my website.
    Quad sticks

  2. #2
    It's a house of cards, a bit of a confidence trick. The reason that the UK, France, the US are not in the same amount of trouble is because the banks gamble that in the end, we'll be good for the money. If they didn't, they'd call in the debts and lend at punitive rates, which is what has happened to Greece. But if they suddenly called in the UK's debts, we'd be in just as much trouble. Apart from economic growth, which isn't exactly huge in either the UK or France for example, the banks trust the governments' ability to raise taxes in both countries. Raising tax is a thing that's Greek governments have always found almost impossible to do to the full extent that they should, the effective structures just aren't there.

    So essentially, the banks gamble that they will make their money back, and as long as everyone keeps up the pretence, the house of cards stays up...

  3. #3
    Somehow it seems to be immoral for wealthy officers at the European Central Bank to dictate to the Greeks that they should cut their old peoples pensions. Perhaps it would be better to agree that the Greeks cannot stay in the Euro and allow them to default on their debts, at least then they would have the opportunity of rebuilding their economy.

    atb Tim

  4. #4
    Don't look now but your pensions are linked to the success / failure of this issue; you'll retire shortly after you're dead at this rate, and owe tax for the privilege !

    Not likely they will leave the euro zone, but they need will absorb huge amounts of Euros before this through and its the effect on the lenders that's significant

    if there is no confidence of the debt being cleared then I agree with Pine Martin as he says the rates are high, and repayment period is measured in the 'lifetime of sun's': Investors want returns within a reasonable period !

    They have one large asset .. coastal waters and a certain close Russian country who might like a new Naval Dock and access.

    Alternatively, Maybe we can all chip in and buy those sun loungers by the pools, and prevent zer Germans from bagging em all !

    TOMSK

  5. #5
    Well the entire conversation has left the realms of reason. There isn't a scenario in which Greece pays back all its' debts, it isn't possible, you can't do it if your economy's shrinking. And it's clearly not acceptable for an elected government to condemn its' citizens to poverty in pursuit of an impossible goal imposed from outside. After all a government's first role is to protect and help its' citizens. All the discussion about how we ended up in this situation, previous kleptocractic Greek governments backed by the same banks who now want the debt called in, may be legitimate, but it doesn't help. And there's no particular reason why leaving the Euro would make any difference to the situation. What they need is a chunk of their debt written off. They can't pay it back anyway.

  6. #6
    Why not write all debt from all countries off?
    Below is a link to my website.
    Quad sticks

  7. #7
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Berkshire....and Sutherland
    Posts
    6,995
    View my Gallery (19)View my Gallery (19)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    Well the entire conversation has left the realms of reason. There isn't a scenario in which Greece pays back all its' debts, it isn't possible, you can't do it if your economy's shrinking. And it's clearly not acceptable for an elected government to condemn its' citizens to poverty in pursuit of an impossible goal imposed from outside. After all a government's first role is to protect and help its' citizens. All the discussion about how we ended up in this situation, previous kleptocractic Greek governments backed by the same banks who now want the debt called in, may be legitimate, but it doesn't help. And there's no particular reason why leaving the Euro would make any difference to the situation. What they need is a chunk of their debt written off. They can't pay it back anyway.
    The problem at the moment is that on the one hand you have a Greek government, voted in on an anti-austerity ticket, who have no viable means (or inclination) to either raise revenue or cut expenditure. On the other, you have a political troika who daren't write off the Greek debt as there are several other countries who would line up behind Greece to demand exactly the same (Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc.). Furthermore, to do so would completely undermine the value of the Euro in the financial markets, causing a dash away and into more stable currencies.

    It is difficult to see how this will end without the exit of Greece from the Eurozone.

    It is all the result of fudging entry into the Euro in the first place, done for politically expedient means, and the standard belief of socialist governments everywhere that money does indeed grow on trees.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  8. #8
    "The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe." : Mikhial Gorbachev


  9. #9
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Berkshire....and Sutherland
    Posts
    6,995
    View my Gallery (19)View my Gallery (19)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    What they need is a chunk of their debt written off. They can't pay it back anyway.
    The problem there is that the Greek government has lived beyond its means for years.

    Although they have made some cuts, when over 20% of your employment is in government and public corporations - an area of employment where the majority retire early with good pensions - they are left with very unpopular choices to meet the troikas demands. Greece is also notoriously lax in collecting taxes (a shame for them that tax evasion/avoidance isn't an Olympic sport).

    They are currently playing hardball, suggesting that they won't make any further cuts. For reasons I explained elsewhere, writing off the Greek debt is only the start of a potentially long list of write-offs that would follow on, resulting in the Eurozone generally being viewed as very unattractive by the financial markets. None of the stronger countries (read Germany) can afford that, and nor do they see why they should pay for the financial impropriety of other nations.

    My guess is that the Greek bluff will be called, at which point they will find themselves out of the frying pan and into the fire.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JTO View Post
    "The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe." : Mikhial Gorbachev
    What's the equivalent Russian expression for "sour grapes"?

Similar Threads

  1. New member from Greece !!
    By Stilianos in forum Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 24-10-2014, 19:09
  2. New member from Greece
    By pabet in forum Introductions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27-09-2014, 07:53
  3. Sporting opportunities on Island of Rhodes in Greece
    By Trufflehunting in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 15-08-2012, 13:21

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •