Arran

The great problem is cost and time. I know what yor saying but if you were on Arran 'training' as a level one novice then after your week you may have experienced enough to gralloch with supervision and prompting. This is assuming that a good number of deer have been culled and this certainly would not be with the novice leading stalking activities.

So we have a situation where the experience is very good and educates the novice but doesn't necessarily provide that much unsupported experience and the confidence this builds. So how many visits will it take to Arran or estates providing similar packages and is the aim of the provider to 'train' a novice stalker or just to put them in a position where they are able to shoot a beastie.

I'm not trying to take something away from the Arran scheme but if your being treated as a guest then your not specifically training for level 2 or being assessed for it. There is a great difference between experiencing stalking as a guest and training to meet the standards of assessment.
 
The Arran Stalking Scheme came into existence to offer BASC members the opportunity to stalk at a reasonable cost.
It is not a training scheme,never has been,never will be.
It is an opportunity to shoot red deer, that you would normally be paying £1200 per week for the privilege.
Nothing more nothing less.

That does not mean that there is no advice given or experienced game.
Those that have been have gained a great deal, those that have not continue to guess.
 
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so it's about shooting deer at knock down prices not building up experience working toward completing elements of level 2?
 
I was told that there will be a few belgium groups going for this ground and it will put the price sky high. That might make a big differnece as BASC GOT IT I AM TOLD FOR 99p. I am sure you are wrong with the qualifications all leases will be the same from now on so there is no sign of underhanded dealings.:D
 
Well I have to say I would help anyone just for my petrol money and i have given an assurance to my DSC2 assesor that I would assist anyone who needed help in a like for like manner that he did for me . All anyone needs to do is ask. as you say I am sure that there are a few of us on here who would gladly assist.
Stu

Stu,
That is a great offer and could be a real benefit to site members. As has been mentioned it is all about experience and learning opportunities. It would be nice and yes it would probably totally down to good will if other level 2 holders on the site were willing and able to help DSC2 candidate members of this site. In a lot of circumstances it is getting in the practice of the graloch etc when you are not fortunate to shoot large numbers per year as well as a sharing of knowledge which I hope the site would live up to. I myself and a lot of others would benefit by just accompanying a DSC2 stalker on a regular basis just to get things like the aformentioned graloch well and truly inbedded. Things like this could be done without a shot being fired by the candidate and if you guys out there were willing to take us with you for a pie & a pint you could be be making a big difference.

SO the BIG question. Who out there is willing to help. I would jump at the opportunity to enhance my skills and I do want to do L2 but not get a divorce in the process due to the costs.

John.
 
Griff i have been , and although i enjoyed it, i gained nothing. The ground is shot out, its about time basc admited to it. If you talk to the locals they will say that there are very few deer left on the south of Arran. Perhaps it is time for them to move on and find alternative stalking grounds.
 
I'm going to be totally honest here and will no doubt get shot down in flames for it but..... If you only shoot one or two deer a year or normally go out with a Stalker who does the gralloching etc for you then I would be supprised if you will ever reach the level of confidence and competency required to complete a DSC2 portfolio. As an AW, one of the biggest problems that I see is that people try to run before they can walk, many people have the required knowledge but lack the practical skills. I will not enter the debate about costs, minimum number of deer shot, availability of witnesses etc; I know these are all issues and difficult ones to resolve, but, life is hard, not everyone can achieve the same standards in any element of their lives, not everyone needs to. This subject has been done to death and, as Griff says above, the Arran scheme was not about training but about giving BASC members a unique experience at a reduced cost. JC
 
Out of interest what is the theory on foreign groups taking on FC leases... Either way you need minimum level one and then must be accompanied by a level two, or be a level two...

Are each of these foreigners going to employ a Level two to accompany them onto Arran...

Just curious how they would make it work...

Alex
 
I'm going to be totally honest here and will no doubt get shot down in flames for it but..... If you only shoot one or two deer a year or normally go out with a Stalker who does the gralloching etc for you then I would be supprised if you will ever reach the level of confidence and competency required to complete a DSC2 portfolio.

I agree with this JC and in fact it is the main thrust of my point which is that a lot of us "little people" just cannot afford to get enough stalking to achieve our DSC2 and now that we are being restricted in our ability to join syndicates or lease land we are caught in a catch 22 situation. How exactly does the average keen stalker operating on a very limited budget get access to enough stalking to achieve the DSC2? This situation now ties the novice stalker into paid days with a DSC2 holder and as he can't afford many of these he is trapped in a situation where he can never get the opportunity to shoot a deer on his own, thus building real experience and confidence. Nor can he ever get any ground of his own, thereby reducing costs and his reliance on cash or land rich DSC2 holders. It then becomes in the interests of DSC2 holders to limit the numbers with the qualification so as to maximise their potential to earn cash from their stalking or to get more land at a reasonable price. Now, I'm not saying that anyone on here is doing that, or would agree with someone doing it, but I am fairly certain that as more money becomes involved more people will move in intent only on making cash and milking the system.

To some extent the whole thing smacks of "jobs for the boys." Where, apart from Arran can the novice go to get the chance to stalk unsupervised?

I'm very lucky to have access to some land that doesn't require me to have any qualifications and so I have escaped the DSC2 trap but, as you say, I'm unlikely ever to get the experience to get my DSC2 and as the noose tightens so it is likely that I will be squeezed out of my tiny bit of stalking by those who had the cash to pay their way to a DSC2.

We must also remember how the green nutters used the image of rich toffs to fuel a class war associated with their attempts to ban hunting and it worked pretty well for them. The way stalking is going with its exclusive class of cash or land rich DSC2 holders milking the little people who have to take the occasional paid day to get access to their sport will soon leave us open to a similar attack from the green nutters.

So, for those of us at the bottom of the pile this really is a most worrisome time and we may soon be limited to a few days per year of paid stalking. Catch 22.
 
NielAJ I was talking to a few Belgiums and they already had lev two most had went to Peter Purseglove and done it in a day but they stated that stalking was that expenice over there that they can pay a good deal more than we want to pay. I am sure even if they dont get it there will need to be some explaining to do as to why the FC gave the ground back to BASC and turned down thousands for the tax payer. It is about time that every thing was on a level playing field and transparancy is the key. I am sure if Griff gets elected he will make sure there is no underhanded dealing regards BASC and the other main groups.
 
It is much better in terms of safety, welfare and meat hygiene to have level 2 qualified more experienced deer stalkers (I would assume) would be their official line.
 
NeilAJ,
you would be suprised at the number of European shooters that have DMQ2, which is the minimum requirment to be a lease holder within the FC.Should some of the wealthy Europeans get a sniff about Arran that will be the end of cheap stalking for the BASC members, there are those that will for whatever reason throw their caps in the air if that happens.

regards
griff
 
Thanks guys and Griff, i didnt realise that so many would have level two "naive", so there is a simple answer to my question...

I have no doubt they will jump at the chance... As said before what do you expect in the modern world money talks and thats that...

thanks again

Alex
 
Thanks guys and Griff, i didnt realise that so many would have level two "naive", so there is a simple answer to my question...

I have no doubt they will jump at the chance... As said before what do you expect in the modern world money talks and thats that...

thanks again

Alex

HVV the Belgian hunting organization similar to our BASC have been running DMQ'S for a few years now.
 
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