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Thread: Help on open closed cert conditions please

  1. #1

    Help on open closed cert conditions please

    OK just to kick off I am on an open cert but i have a question about closed certs as I am takeing out stalkers who are experianced but on a closed cert

    If the FAC holder is on a closed certificate but shooting with me on the uncleared land on which I have permision, is this legal?

    If I put said closed certificate holder in a high seat on uncleared land with instruction to shoot into back stops that I have deemed safe and identified to the FAC holder, is it OK if I sit in the other high seat 200m away and we are in radio contact

    ATB

    Chasey

  2. #2
    No I don't think you can do this as the land must be cleared first up to a calibre and therefore a paying stalker can use. Up to that calibre with no problems

    as for being in a high seat as you state it's also a no

    but I think if the paying stalker uses your rifle this is fine aslong as your close by and can see them to give instruction or intervene

    obviously please ensure sure what you plan to do is fully legal to do and also your paying stalker guest to do

  3. #3
    No it would not be legal. However the guest stalker may be able to (under the right conditions) use your rifle by taking advantage of the estate rifle rule.

    You will need to read and understand the estate rifle rule carefully as most seem to not fully comprehend what is involved and even ACPO and the H.O. have asked for clarification on it.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Chasey View Post

    If the FAC holder is on a closed certificate but shooting with me on the uncleared land on which I have permision, is this legal?
    In those circumstances the holder of any FAC with a territorial condition on it would be in breach of the condition.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chasey View Post
    OK just to kick off I am on an open cert but i have a question about closed certs as I am takeing out stalkers who are experianced but on a closed cert

    If the FAC holder is on a closed certificate but shooting with me on the uncleared land on which I have permision, is this legal?



    If I put said closed certificate holder in a high seat on uncleared land with instruction to shoot into back stops that I have deemed safe and identified to the FAC holder, is it OK if I sit in the other high seat 200m away and we are in radio contact

    ATB

    Chasey
    I had a similar question cleared up with advice from BASC FAD, I to have an open ticket, and still carry a copy's of my original permission letters. In addition I will have a letter stating I am the "occupier" from the owner of 5 farms as his son will be out with me foxing and stalking later in the year.

    To give my point of view on what you are after, I cant see how you can clear land for a third party irrespective of you having an open ticket as like others have said your conditions are tied into your cert and all certs have conditions, just some are more relaxed than others.

    It is all well and good until something goes wrong and then you find people taking steps....

    Big ones whilst walking away muttering " it has nothing to do with me"

    Be smart and get it water tight....

    Tim.243
    Stalking is very much like going to the night club

    You can always tell an Essex Boy, just you cant tell him much...

    An hour in the field is worth a week of typing trash.....




  6. #6
    It very much depends on the wording of the conditions that are applicable to the certificate in question. My suggestion is the certificate holder speaks to his FLO and states that he has paid accompanied stalking at such and such a place and asks for an appropriate variation. I would suggest that he tells the FLO who you are and gives a description of the land.

  7. #7
    Simplest option would be to get the land cleared (by your FLD) for your guests calibre, it would be all above board then.

  8. #8
    Just madness. I have an open cert', but a friend who has 22-250 on a closed ticket can't shoot on my ground as it hasn't been cleared for any calibre. But I can wander about taking any shot I deem safe and appropriate with my .270 anywhere in the country I have permission to shoot
    A Man should be wise, but never too wise. He who does not know his fate in advance is free of care

  9. #9
    I assume you're on good communication terms with your land owner who knows you're taking clients out so they should have no issue with you having the local FEO pop out to clear it up to whatever calibre they deem appropriate and then you can tell every client with authoritywhat rifle that can bring and use.

  10. #10
    IT is an issue that does need to be Addressed as even if cleared you need to supply the Shooter with the information so they can contact your Police Firearms dept to check its cleared (their ticket their responsibility to make sure ) and for any parches of land you may take them on

    What Does anybody get as conditions if they have a grant only because of paid / invitational stalking a Closed ticket would be a real PITA and unworkable


    There should be no real problem for an FAC Holder ( police checked and deemed suitable to hold and shoot alone on checked land) to use their own gun accompanied by an Open ticket holder under the same Situation as the Estate gun rule allows them to supervise a non FAC holder ( no background checks or any assessment etc etc ) on an identical or more powerful Rifle on the same ground but is on their ticket


    ie we can go to a ground that a mate (open ticket) has permission to shoot on not cleared we have Identical guns same cal, scope ,stock etc
    just one digit out on serial number only way to tell apart

    (A) I pick up my gun and go for a stalk and shoot a deer I commit an offence (breach of FAC conditions)

    (B) I pick his up walk the same route take the same shot all fine and legal carry on

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