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Thread: Be careful with data

  1. #1

    Be careful with data

    Deleted as, apparently, my advice is 'perhaps flawed' and I am 'sensitive to counterpoints'.

    I will be booking an urgent appointment with my therapist this afternoon!
    Last edited by Glyn 1; 13-07-2015 at 11:27.

  2. #2
    or worked up methodically in your own rifle!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Glyn 1 View Post
    I've seen it several times on here recently where incorrect load information/advice has been given.

    We all make mistakes but everyone needs to take a little more care when giving or receiving reloading advice.

    Personally, I would never even consider using a load that I hadn't checked in a proper, hard copy reloading manual.
    Why hard copy? Surely if the provenance is valid, the method of dissemination is irrelevant.

    Atb

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by achosenman View Post
    Why hard copy? Surely if the provenance is valid, the method of dissemination is irrelevant.

    Atb
    Because its much easier for mistakes to slip through the editing process on a website, especially a forum, than it is in a known and trusted manual. 45 grains becomes 54 grains, Reloader 7 becomes reloader 17. Simple mistakes.

    Also, the interweb tends to deal in opinions rather than facts. Take this post for example, i've tried to offer some simple safety advice and within minutes there are two comments giving alternative advice. Doesn't mean any of us are wrong but it does illustrate my point perfectly.

    All I'm saying is be careful and double check things.

  5. #5
    We should actually all be careful to read stuff through a couple of times before we click on "post", it might also stop some of the rows that come about because we are a little hot under the collar.

    David.

    PS. Done it this time, not guaranteeing the future though!!!!

  6. #6
    I agree - wherever possible in all things reloading use more than one source of info.
    eg Weighing powder - use two scales - one to cross check the other's readings.
    Powder selection & charge weights - use powder makers' data plus bullet makers'or other sources.
    C.O.A.L. etc. - cross check load data publisher data against CIP or SAAMI info.

    When working between data values I like to draw graphs - this makes interpolation much easier.

    Load safe!

    Ian

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Glyn 1 View Post
    Because its much easier for mistakes to slip through the editing process on a website, especially a forum, than it is in a known and trusted manual. 45 grains becomes 54 grains, Reloader 7 becomes reloader 17. Simple mistakes.

    Also, the interweb tends to deal in opinions rather than facts. Take this post for example, i've tried to offer some simple safety advice and within minutes there are two comments giving alternative advice. Doesn't mean any of us are wrong but it does illustrate my point perfectly.

    All I'm saying is be careful and double check things.
    The Vihtavouri#9 loading guide is on the internet, so are many other reputable guides. The Hodgdon website is interactive, and equally valid. Your comment regarding editing does not stand up to scrutiny. The editing process for hard copy, is no more affective than for the digitised version. Mistakes happen, and always will.

    "Hard copy" is just an older way to disseminate information, nothing more. Forum recommendation has never been a recognised valid source of loading data, but that doesn't mean all data you read on a computer screen is unsafe.

    All re-loaders need to exercise common sense. But some are more knowledgeable and experienced than others.

    Atb
    Last edited by achosenman; 13-07-2015 at 09:24.

  8. #8
    Glyn,

    Interesting points, well made! The "issue" we often face is conflicting advice even within what should be hard copy i.e. differences between various editions and sources of reloading manuals eg Nosler, Lyman, Berger, Lee etc and the manufacturers advice sheets, websites etc etc
    Even the most well meaning of reloaders can misread hard copy...suffer from word blindness after hours in the reloading shed poring over tables and tables.
    We have to consider, as you rightly say, the manufacturers will err on the side of caution but variances in powder batches, case capacity, primer batch and make can all make a huge difference to pressures by virtue of summation of tolerances.

    Alas at the end of the day there is no substitute, Quickload, manuals or otherwise, for the empirical evidence based on safe, sound reloading practice i.e working up, from a safe base, in your own rifle.

    As Ian said...check, cross check, double check....then pull the trigger by means of a long piece of string whilst seated safely in a bunker....

    But joking aside good advice especially for the less meticulous and experienced amongst us.

  9. #9
    Safe and responsible approach should always be adopted when Reloading, Understand your rifle and twist, case prep is so important, case should always be cleaned from in to out, preferably use ultrasonic cleaner or similar method. The last thing you need burnt powder deposit build up. It can crack and cause extra volume in the case. From data: always follow manufacture recommendation and work up from minimum to no more than maximum.

    Loading is therapeutic and rewarding, especially when your are looking for precision accuracy from you shooting

    happy and safe loading

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsettaff View Post
    Glyn,

    Interesting points, well made! The "issue" we often face is conflicting advice even within what should be hard copy i.e. differences between various editions and sources of reloading manuals eg Nosler, Lyman, Berger, Lee etc and the manufacturers advice sheets, websites etc etc
    Even the most well meaning of reloaders can misread hard copy...suffer from word blindness after hours in the reloading shed poring over tables and tables.
    We have to consider, as you rightly say, the manufacturers will err on the side of caution but variances in powder batches, case capacity, primer batch and make can all make a huge difference to pressures by virtue of summation of tolerances.

    Alas at the end of the day there is no substitute, Quickload, manuals or otherwise, for the empirical evidence based on safe, sound reloading practice i.e working up, from a safe base, in your own rifle.

    As Ian said...check, cross check, double check....then pull the trigger by means of a long piece of string whilst seated safely in a bunker....

    But joking aside good advice especially for the less meticulous and experienced amongst us.
    A big +1 to what Glyn 1 and Dorsettaff have said.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

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