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Thread: Proofing

  1. #1

    Proofing

    Can anyone please tell me why this is the only country I know that cannot get a law "defined".....
    If a barrel is screwcut...some rfd's want it proofed others dont.
    If moderator is fitted some want it proofed others dont.
    If a muzzle brake is fitted some want it proofed others dont.
    This of course doesn't even go into the bullet/calibre/gun size allowed for use over here or not as each county is different and each counties "interpretation" of HO rules and regs vary widely. We probably have more laws than most countries along with being one of the only countries that "go by the book" in relation to other law enforcement rules.

    This stems from being hacked off at having to send everything to the proof house which just adds cost in transport and then of course their fees along with the added bonus of if they damage or **** anything up then they have a disclaimer.

  2. #2
    Nick -

    I sympathise, but this subject has been done to death on SD. The issue in the context of most modifications such as screw cutting, moderator fitment, is not the law, but the conditions imposed on gunsmiths by their professional indemnity insurers. If you don't want to pay the proofing 'tax', then find a gunsmith with sensible insurers. They do exist.
    KevinF -

  3. #3
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    The proofing laws in this country were brought in to protect the final purchaser as in times gone by all sort of arms were cobbled together which did cause death and if you was lucky and survived horrendus injuries.

    Try not to view it as an obstacle but one there for your wellbeing.

    The prooftests carried out at the proof house is nothing but a extreemly overcharged cartridge fired into a protective chamber and then the firearm is examined visually to see if such an excessive charge has discocered any material flaws in its construction if it passes this test by the examiner it is then stamped as withstanding those pressures which are unlikely to be achieved in further normal usage, obviously if flaws are shown the firearm is scrapped.

    The test pressures as far as I am aware are far greater than our continental counter parts so you can be assured a brith proof house test gives greater confidence in its usage

  4. #4
    Capreolus, I agree on the value of Proof, indeed I believe it is one of the first ever pieces of consumer protection legislation. Nick's thread, however, raises a specific gripe about the way the system is interpreted in relation to screwcutting etc. As Kevin also pointed out, the proof requirement from smiths is driven by their insurers rather than by legislation. Jackson's website has the full story of their court shenanigans that set the precedent (I think) proving (unintended pun) that proof test is NOT required for moderators.

    I find it very annoying having to pay the extra, you could say that it isn't the smith's fault, but they choose who they get their insurance from. As Kevin also mentioned, not all smiths have policies that demand it, ergo, the smiths ARE at fault if they chose their insurers unwisely, so why should I have to pay for that mistake?
    Last edited by BwchDanas; 20-04-2010 at 10:53. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
    Nick -

    I sympathise, but this subject has been done to death on SD. The issue in the context of most modifications such as screw cutting, moderator fitment, is not the law, but the conditions imposed on gunsmiths by their professional indemnity insurers. If you don't want to pay the proofing 'tax', then find a gunsmith with sensible insurers. They do exist.

    Thanks Kevin
    I should have done a search, but my ire at the inconsistancies and having just got off the phone to an rfd I was seeing "red".
    Finding a gunsmith down this way that is sensible is quite hard as I know from when picking up my last two rifles (both screwcut but not proofed).

  6. #6
    Caprelous
    I would agree along with Bwch that the proofing laws could be good, but yes it is the inconsistancies that piss me off. If it was clear cut then I would be able to purchase what I want and happily from whichever outlet, knowing that the item would already have been proofed and I wouldn't need to bugger about with sending it off getting it back, paying the government their extra tax.
    Saying that, it is VERY clear, set by precedent that proofing is not required on certain things, so if it is clear why then are the insurers via the smiths so insistant on ignoring this.
    As it's been done to death I'll leave it there thanks for the replies guys, cheers
    Nick

  7. #7
    The bit I find funny is this :-

    The prooftests carried out at the proof house is nothing but a extreemly overcharged cartridge fired into a protective chamber and then the firearm is examined visually to see if such an excessive charge has discocered any material flaws in its construction
    Having had to visit the London proof house with a Colt revolver some years ago and it bore no proof marks at all. I can say the visual examintion must have been very quick. He took the revolver walked out the back there was ONE bang and it came back and was handed to me stamped. That quick they didn't even wipe it through to see if there was anything in the bore chambers etc. It hardly inspired confidence and struck me as a money making excercise.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    The bit I find funny is this :-



    Having had to visit the London proof house with a Colt revolver some years ago and it bore no proof marks at all. I can say the visual examintion must have been very quick. He took the revolver walked out the back there was ONE bang and it came back and was handed to me stamped. That quick they didn't even wipe it through to see if there was anything in the bore chambers etc. It hardly inspired confidence and struck me as a money making excercise.
    I find that observation alarming surely in the case of a revolver all 6 chambers would need to be tested with a overcharge admitedly it would pressure test the barrel of the revolver but what about the remaining 5 cylinders

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    It hardly inspired confidence and struck me as a money making excercise.
    And by and large a money making exercise to keep the otherwise barely employable in work.

    Can someone please explain what exactly special skill or knowledge costs so much that the proof houses cost compared to an MOT Test on a modern motor car? A cartridge costs what compared to the equipment a garage must have for a MOT?

    And to compare the cost of certifying a deactivated weapon to the cost of an MOT Test on a modern motor car? No it is all just, in the 21st Century, an expensive "make work" scheme. There is only one solution.

    Allow the creation of additional private "for profit" proof houses outside of the London and Birmingham monopoly that currently exists.

  10. #10
    Proofing is a lot of bunk, sorry. Proofing a colt revolver with overloads is foolish. The revolver was tested at the plant. Had the revolver blown up would it have been the revolvers fault? Or the over loaded cartridge??

    Yes. I'm a American so I "just don't understand" but I'm also a gunsmith and I know a racket when I see one. Your proofing house seems to be just that. We don't have it in the US and we have a poot-load more guns floating around than you folk do; being shortened and threaded and rebarreled all the time. None of which, by the way, require proofing by law. By your government's logic, American shooters by the freight car load should be dying in horrendous firearms related accidents.

    If you need this kind of pablum then you need new gunsmiths or the common sense not to take your pet fusil to the local plumbers shop when it needs work. ~Muir

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