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Thread: Use it or Lose it?

  1. #1

    Use it or Lose it?

    I had my FAC approved last year ( Met police) .22 .17hmr .243. Unfortunately due to changes in work/personal circumstances , buying a rifle/s hasn't been top of my agenda. Am I likely to get my cert revoked for lack of use ? Should I buy something cheap that fits the bill , to fill in the gaps?

    This question was prompted by a thread that got closed down regarding a SGC revoke. One of the replies mentioned having/or knowing someone that had had FAC revoked due to lack of use. It's been nagging me since then.

    Thanks in advance for your helpful comments.

    Sam

  2. #2
    PS obviously I have 4 years to go , but...

  3. #3
    If you didn't buy a cheap gun that you don't need, when do you think you will genuinely make use of your FAC?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam64 View Post
    I had my FAC approved last year ( Met police) .22 .17hmr .243. Unfortunately due to changes in work/personal circumstances , buying a rifle/s hasn't been top of my agenda. Am I likely to get my cert revoked for lack of use ? Should I buy something cheap that fits the bill , to fill in the gaps?

    This question was prompted by a thread that got closed down regarding a SGC revoke. One of the replies mentioned having/or knowing someone that had had FAC revoked due to lack of use. It's been nagging me since then.

    Thanks in advance for your helpful comments.

    Sam
    Police will use the use it or lose it clause even though it was brought about by the Lord Cullen enquiry and related to hand guns.

    My nephew lost his certificate on renewal as the Police deemed he didn't buy enough ammunition in the previous five years but this was ruled against in court as we pointed out that the rifle was used for deer stalking perhaps twice a year.

    His reason for acquiring a firearm was fulfilled when he stated it was for deer stalking and not target shooting meaning he would only use a small amount of ammunition.

    His cert was duly returned however if you have slots for certain calibres and you have not even filled these slots when it comes up for renewal, it's a fair bet you will have them removed or certificate revoked if you have none of them. I would also worry about the fact the Police may be monitoring their new certificate holders to see if they are actually purchasing firearms to fill their slots.

  5. #5
    I know every FEO in every force is different but my first FEO said he'd expect about 500 rounds of rimfire ammo and 100 cf for each rifle over 5 years to be enough to keep them happy. Any less and I'd have to explain why I was hardly using them (I think it would be pretty easy to explain les ammo and still justify keeping them). This was my first application so I assume he's expect me to practice and use more ammo setting up etc than maybe someone whose settled into shooting. Once I'd got the rifles I'd used that much ammo in the first few months so it wasn't an issue for me

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam64 View Post
    I had my FAC approved last year ( Met police) .22 .17hmr .243. Unfortunately due to changes in work/personal circumstances , buying a rifle/s hasn't been top of my agenda. Am I likely to get my cert revoked for lack of use ? Should I buy something cheap that fits the bill , to fill in the gaps?

    This question was prompted by a thread that got closed down regarding a SGC revoke. One of the replies mentioned having/or knowing someone that had had FAC revoked due to lack of use. It's been nagging me since then.

    Thanks in advance for your helpful comments.

    Sam
    Hi Sam,

    That reads really poorly imo.

    Having applied for something you now feel you can't afford due to circumstances which can easily happen to anyone why then purchase something which will grate on you everytime you look at it for the sake of filling a slot. In fact I'd say you'd never look at it as it will remain in your gun cabinet never to surface but will fulfill a wish of holding on to a fac which maybe for no purpose other than not loosing the calibres allowed to aquire.

    Not a great reason imo to purchase anything,

    Sorry mate but that's how it reads to me..

    Atb
    Blessed be the sheeple for they shall inherit bugger all...

  7. #7
    Sam.

    Your situation is not particularly unusual. Life events happen and for many reasons a person who has been granted a certificate to acquire firearms, may be unable to do so.

    Guidance advises police that the non-acquisition of an authorised firearm(s) should not be reviewed during the validity of the certificate.
    Four years, until your certificate expiry, is a long time and your circumstances may change for the better. So there is no need to do anything at present.

    Should the time come, when you are sure that you cannot acquire the firearms during the lifetime of your certificate, and there is no prospect of being able to, then the best course of action may be to surrender the certificate, together with a covering letter of explanation. This would stand you in good stead for any further application that you may make in the future.

    If you get to the end of the certificate validity and have been unable to acquire the firearms, you could choose simply to let the certificate expire and inform the police that you do not wish to renew it. However if at that point in time, there is a realistic possibility of acquiring the firearms, you could apply to renew the certificate in the normal way. The police would want to be sure that you would be acquiring the firearms and had a good reason for them, otherwise they would refuse to renew the certificate.

    Revocation of a certificate, during its valid lifetime, simply for failing to acquire the firearms, is possible but highly unlikely unless other aggravating factors apply.
    Keep your powder dry for the time being and see how life unfolds for you, would be my advice. I hope this is helpful.
    Last edited by Uncle Norm; 29-08-2015 at 06:54.

  8. #8
    As you have said, you have four years left to act. The authorities will not revoke your certificate during that time. It is also not just a matter of buying a rifle but also using it. As all ammunition is recorded on your FAC it is easy to see if you are using a weapon. My advice is not to rush out and buy something you will never use. You will need to have time and if you are struggling you may need to leave one of the calibres off when you renew in four years time. This is not the end of the world. If you do find the time and money you can reapply.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam64 View Post
    I had my FAC approved last year ( Met police) .22 .17hmr .243. Unfortunately due to changes in work/personal circumstances , buying a rifle/s hasn't been top of my agenda. Am I likely to get my cert revoked for lack of use ? Should I buy something cheap that fits the bill , to fill in the gaps?

    This question was prompted by a thread that got closed down regarding a SGC revoke. One of the replies mentioned having/or knowing someone that had had FAC revoked due to lack of use. It's been nagging me since then.

    Thanks in advance for your helpful comments.

    Sam

    U don't say wot u want/need the guns for? Pest control? Just to keep ur ticket?

    The 3 calibres u mentioned u could pick up fairly cheaply. Most gunshops will have racks throu the back filled with sub 100 quid 22lr's with scopes and mods. Almost nothing cango wrong with a 22lr, great guns and at the ranges ur shooting any old 1 will do. May not be pretty but do a job, my 22lr was a 50 quider god knows how many years ago and still does the jib fine.
    If its for pest control a 22lr with either subs or HV rounds covers a lot of bases and in the past a 22lr with HV rounds was a very well used foxing gun (at sensible ranges), not ideal but was all there was at time

    And even ur 17hmr u have to be a bit more careful with 2nd hand but still not that dear (and plus u dinae need a fancy scope as little recoil)

    U will also pick up a semi decent 'working' 243 for not a lot of money buggest problem is u will need a decent scope, and when u get into cf's mods, bullets, scopes etc all get more expensive.

    If u want a nice shiny new rifle to look at the above is probably not good advice but if ur rifle is just a tool to do a job it will get u started, esp with rimfires just a tool, my cf's get looked after better but are still old and 2nd hand


    Depending on ur firearms dept but some might be lenient if u had aqquired and were using both a 17/22 but had noit yet got the 243. My mate went 5 years without getting a 243, they renewed him but told him to get finger out, year or so later got a call to really get finger out so he bought 1
    Last edited by countrryboy; 29-08-2015 at 09:45.

  10. #10
    Sam64, you haven't said what you originally wanted the guns for. If it were club target shooting then an opition would be to at least join a club, that way you could at least show your FEO that you were trying to get some experience begore you purchase any firearms. If however it were for "vermin control (And I would suspect that it is judging by the rifles you asked for) and you are no longer in a position to carry out any vermin control and don't get at least one of the rifles on your ticket then you might find your FEO starting to ask questions about your "good reason" to posess firearms in time to come.
    However, having said that I hope that your circumstances do change for the better (Whatever they are - and they are no business of ours and nor is it for us to ask for any "personal" details). You still have plenty of time for those circumstances to change (And as I have said I hope that they do) or of course to rethink your position regarding your good reason for posessing firearms.



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