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Thread: Happy days...

  1. #1

    Happy days...

    Interesting evening last night....

    After a claim made by a third party, I was arrested by police on suspicion of an assault (ie. Physical assault not sexual or anything) on my 14 year old daughter, for whom I am primary carer.

    police demanded (not a request of voluntary safekeeping) seizure of firearms and certificate under common law at time of arrest, lots of use of the phrase standard policy and we have to because we got in trouble when we didn't and someone got killed

    made clear that if I refused they would use my house keys to enter property and sieze (good luck on finding my cabinet keys I thought) I pointed out that I couldn't see any cause for concern public safety, nor could I see any reason this could not be handled after initial investigations were complete and I had had a chance to make my case. Regardless, I complied with demand, accompanied them to property and gave them cabinet keys, gunslips etc. not worth making it more difficult than it needed to be after I felt I had adequately pointed out my position

    Luckily I used the opportunity at the property to grab a file of paperwork regarding my daughters history of 'challenging behaviour', extensive ongoing involvement of camhs and social services etc.

    spent about seven hours waiting to be interviewed, just before midnight in the end. Handy hint, ask for copy of pace guidelines and the bible, at least it gives you something to read...

    obviously can't say much about the case, except to say that duty solicitor clear I have an established defence, fully backed up and put in context by the paperwork I was able to present in interview.

    bailed within a few minutes of interview. Daughter put neutral place by SS till it gets sorted, police still need to interview her properly.

    so, the game now begins!

    Suffice to to say I believe I am fully in the clear. Solicitor agrees. We just have to see what happens next.

    will update regards communications and procedure from firearms side of things, I suspect it will be fairly drawn out, but recording it all might be useful for someone else down the line to see how the system works.

    All a bit of a pain in the arse really....

    edit, just to comment, police fully aware of daughters autism at last renewal, social services fully aware of my FAC throughout, never been any concerns voiced, I made pains to ensure both were aware to avoid exactly this type of situation in the future, and discussed key safety measures I already had in place at the time.
    Last edited by Labrat; 30-08-2015 at 11:23.

  2. #2
    Sorry to hear your troubles - I would recommend immediately involving which ever shooting organisation you are a member off - BASC, SACS, NGO etc

  3. #3
    Thanks

    Yes, will be speaking to BASC sometime after the bank holiday. I doubt anything will make any difference until the initial allegation is resolved anyway, it will take a while for the wheels to grind forwards.
    Last edited by Labrat; 30-08-2015 at 11:41.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Labrat View Post
    Thanks

    Yes, will be speaking to BASC sometime after the bank holiday. I doubt anything will make any difference until the initial allegation is resolved anyway, it will take a while for the wheels to grind forwards.
    Keeping a cool head is vital in such difficult and emotional circumstances but you seem to be achieving it remarkably well. I suspect you are right in anticipating a long drawn out period of time before it is resolved.
    Your legal adviser and BASC firearms team will be your best resources in this. It may assist if they are prepared to communicate with each other, with your permission of course.

  5. #5
    Sorry to hear of your troubles and i hope it gets resolved quickly. Hopefully you are in an area that has a sensible firearms department and they are prepared to listen.

    Trevor

  6. #6
    I like your style, just for your obvious self-control and logical approach. I'm sure you dont actually need help but your approach of explaining to help others in the future is a worthy one. All the very best in your endeavour and I hope the emotional strain isnt too great. Good luck .... If I can help?

  7. #7
    Thanks, you're right, stay calm, think it through, take notes as soon as you can.

    For info - a couple of other things to mention

    Pace guidelines (as I asked for a copy) state that an arrestee must be provided with writing materials on request - I took this opportunity, and it allowed me to sit down and write a full chronology of events over the previous 24 hours - this was invaluable in the meeting with the solicitor, as it allowed me to go through it in a fairly organised manner.

    I, of course, asked for duty solicitor, he was very good and concise in going through the relevant points of law.

    He advised me that in my circumstance he would normally suggest going no comment, but due to the extensive background, my clear and detailed chronology of events, documentation placing events in context, along with my iPad with video that showed a previous event (I had asked for the iPad and paperwork to be available for my interview, since it contained important information regards my defence) - we made a full statement revolving around my chronology. I also had copies of several important documents on the iPad that I was able to email to the police immediately supporting my case.

    The foresight of asking arresting officer to take these documents and iPad with me was a godsend, so happy I did this - anyone gets in these circumstances in the future take note.

    I also took the opportunity at the end of the interview ("anything else you wish to say?") to restate that I was an FAC holder, I had been fully cooperative, I saw no relevance of the alleged offence to my FAC, and explained my key security arrangements to reassure that nobody else could access them.

    hope this helps someone in the future.

  8. #8
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    I am sorry to hear of your events. I would add that, from a police point of view, they have to cover all the bases and that one of those is possibly your suicide. So they may not necessarily have removed your guns to protect others but to protect yourself. What they won't want is the headline "Shooter kills himselff after arrest on assault allegations..."

    Have you been given a detailed receipt for the guns? Detailing that they have their bolts, any telescopic sight fitted and any moderators fitted? Also it may be useful to inform your firearms licensing department, although, they may already be aware of the matter...or may not be..as in theory you now no longer have custody of the guns even though you remain the owner of them. Listing in full what has been removed by the officers.

    And asking if they, the firearms licensing department, have no objection to what I mention in the paragraph below:

    Ask if the guns can be collected by a RFD, or at least checked by an RFD, to ensure that they are in good condition and where necessary lubricated or given proper preparation for what may be a long storage period. This would also enable photographs to be taken so that a condition report on them is available if there is then an issue of damage incurred during storage with the police.

    Lastly is there a copy of the third party report that lead to the events you relate? I would have hoped that this would take the form of a statement that should have been signed by the third party under a declaration that such a statement must be true and that a false statement may render the maker liable to prosecution.

    If the allegations are false then you may need to see what your solicitor says about action regarding this. That's all I will comment on this thread and I hope that my comments are taken as meant as impartial and non judgmental advice offered in good faith.
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 30-08-2015 at 18:45.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by enfieldspares View Post
    I am sorry to hear of your events. I would add that, from a police point of view, they have to cover all the bases and that one of those is possibly your suicide. So they may not necessarily have removed your guns to protect others but to protect yourself. What they won't want is the headline "Shooter kills himselff after arrest on assault allegations..."
    Oh, of course - Though I suspect that whether they actually have a legal power to do that as a matter of policy without an objective and well founded belief of such risk in an individual case is of course a different issue...

  10. #10
    The legality, objectivity and justification of the police taking temporary possession of your firearms is simply a red herring distraction for you at this early stage.
    Your actions and cooperation so far, have been wise.

    As the firearms are not evidential, there should be no justification for long term retention in police possession nor reason why they should not be transferred to a registered firearms dealer of your choice for storage, until the issues are finally resolved.

    There is nothing to be gained by pressing the police at present. In fact it could be counter productive by pushing them into 'regualarising' their position unnecessarily.

    BASC firearms team should be able to negotiate this for you without difficulty and I would allow them to handle that aspect on your behalf but in slow time.

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