Minimum or mid starting point

cowsmart

Well-Known Member
Just starting this reloading, and I find it a mine field of info..what to do what not to do etc etc...Now I have read to start at minimum loads and work up in .5gr increments until first sign of over pressure or max load reached...but also hear that too low a load is just as dangerous with back pressure spikes....I have found different load data from Powder companies compared with bullet companies? Should I guess and start mid range?......regards Lee
 
Start at the minimum. I go up in 1gr increments (around 2%) with my .270. Powder manufacturer's data will be good. I think you said you had got Ramshot powder in a previous post - they have quite a bit of reloading data for their powders.
You'll need to decrease the 1gr increments if loading for catridges with smaller case volumes.
 
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starting on the .22-250 before venturing onto .270....using IMR 4064 H benchmark and Viht n140....
 
Just starting this reloading, and I find it a mine field of info..what to do what not to do etc etc...Now I have read to start at minimum loads and work up in .5gr increments until first sign of over pressure or max load reached...but also hear that too low a load is just as dangerous with back pressure spikes....I have found different load data from Powder companies compared with bullet companies? Should I guess and start mid range?......regards Lee
You're right about the minefield.

First thing to do is get a reloading and data manual from Nosler or someone else reputable. Don't believe everything you read on the internet - just because some shooting in the US can feed his rifle with some super big load and get more velocity than anyone else seems to be able to get it doesn't mean your action will take it or that he's not a 13 year old making up stories about himself in his bedroom on the web. The books are a mine of good safe information and you will save yourself a lot of time by having a good read.

I think most of them give a min and a max load. Starting load tends to be recommended as 10% below max load but I tend to start at about 8% below.

If you are using a slow powder then working up in .5 increments is fine. If using a very quick powder I prefer to work up in 0.3 increments, especially as you reach the max.

So for example, in the 6 - 6.5 Lapua the max was about 40 grains of R15. I made up cartridges in 37, 37.5, 38, 38.5, 38.8, 39.1, 39.4, 39.7 and 40. Use indelible marker to write the load on the case as you load it. Doesn't pay to mix them up.

All were shot in sequence through a chronograph until the bolt started to stiffen up which in my case was 40 - I never got into flat primer territory as I didn't need to push it any further, but that's another pressure sign to watch out for. Then back off in 0.3 increments with 5 loads at each charge weight to find where the accuracy node is. I found mine at 39.1 grains, 2950 fps, and that's now my std recipe. This found you can then start to play with seating depths to get the last little bit out of it.

If you can't find accuracy with one powder, try another. And if that doesn't work you might need to try another bullet. It's an art - some barrels like one combination, others don't - there doesn't seem to be a scientific formula for accurate, you have to experiment and find what your gun likes.

I'm sure there are more experienced people than me out there who will tell you differently, but the above works for me and I haven't blown myself up yet.

But get the book and have a good read before you do anything. Don't believe all you read on the internet (including this - you don't know if I have any idea what I'm talking about or not). And don't go off piste until you really know what your doing - stick to the powders and bullets given in the data books.

Hope that's helpful.
 
Get a good reloading manual and stick to the recommended data, then when you are more experienced amd understand the problems with high pressure you can experiment with top end loads
The Sierra Edition V is my bible i then cross reference with other manuals from Nosler, Hornady and Berger

Ian.
 
aye, but the hornady book and hodgdsons data are different...so if I start in the middle somewhere then I'm safe yes ?
 
aye, but the hornady book and hodgdsons data are different...so if I start in the middle somewhere then I'm safe yes ?

Get a manual from the same maker as the bullets you are using and use that as your primary reference, reloading manuals from the powder makers use generic bullet weight data rather then the actual bullet you are using.

Ian.
 
aye, but the hornady book and hodgdsons data are different...so if I start in the middle somewhere then I'm safe yes ?

Pretty safe, I'd say. Depends on why you're reloading. I do it for economy and consistency but if you want max or min power then you can run into problems.
 
Pretty safe, I'd say. Depends on why you're reloading. I do it for economy and consistency but if you want max or min power then you can run into problems.

Likewise, the first lot I did I started at minimnum and went up in .5 increments, meant 6 different weights of powder. On my .308 it would have meant 10 different weights so I started mid way up to max. Saved about 25 rounds that way. Had no adverse pressure signs at all but was a bit more careful to check throughout.

I've only got a spotter barrel on my .243 so can't fire more than 3 rounds before things get too hot so I'd be at the range all day if I shot every possible powder charge.
 
For many years, Hodgdon only published maximum loads and advised that they be reduced by 6% to get a starting load with the exception of H110 spherical magnum pistol powder where the reduction shouldn't exceed 3% as a greater reduction could have very undesirable side-effects.

The last time I looked closely at Hornady data, some of the lowest charges listed were 15% or more down on maximum. This is far too great a reduction. In most cases, such loads haven't been tested - they're obtained by firing a relatively small range of likely mid to full working pressure charges, graphing the charge weight / pressure / MV lines and extending them both ways to produce a maximum charge weight that is the highest that fits within the MV based tabular display format and doesn't exceed SAAMI max pressures, and equally reducing charges to those likely to produce the lower MVs in the table.

It's a less than ideal way to do it with the full 100 fps MV steps often employed. It could be that a cartridge and load combination is estimated to produce say 60,001 psi on the graph at 2,900 fps for a cartridge with 60,000 psi MAP allowed, so the charge weight corresponding to 2,800 fps will be shown as maximum. By graphing 'backwards', if done too much case-fill ratios will drop to unacceptably low levels. One should ideally use 90% or more of the available space in the case, and certainly never below 80% in normal loads. Over low fill ratios produce large velocity and pressure spreads, reduce the charge burn percentage, and often produce very poor case obturation in the chamber as seen by heavily sooted case bodies, the muck getting down to the extractor groove and often the bolt face.

Sierra recommended that charge weight test steps should be 1% of the maximum charge weights after years of loads testing and I'd say that the company got it pretty well right at that. So 223 size charges would be worked up in 0.2 to 0.3gn steps, 308 Win by 0.4-0.5gn and so on. If you work in 1% steps, those companies' data that start at 15% below max would see you wear both patience and barrel out with the amount of painfully slow work-ups.
 
Get a manual from the same maker as the bullets you are using and use that as your primary reference, reloading manuals from the powder makers use generic bullet weight data rather then the actual bullet you are using.

Ian.

I disagree. Buy the manual from the powder maker and ALWAYS start at minimum with any bullet of a given weight. The powder makers are responsible for accurate data regarding pressures and the like. Their reputation and business is based on it. Bullet makers make bullets.

Hornady data is ridiculously low. Comparing theirs to Hodgons they are, as Laurie said, far under juiced. For this reason I stick to powder maker's data.~Muir
 
more confused now than when I started...I will just go mid range and work up....cheers folks

What bullets are you planning to load?
personally I use either the start load in the manual I have (lyman) for the closest match to the bullet I'm going to load, or it go to the powder manufacturers online data (I use IMR) and use that start load. Or now more recently I've also been looking at the bullet manufacturers online data off the powder/bulletin combo...

realistically though, usually I look at all 3 start and max loads and as long as they're pretty close to each other I end up averaging them out
 
more confused now than when I started...I will just go mid range and work up....cheers folks

Not smart.
You can't compare two different sets of data, obtained by different methods, on different equipment, on different days at different facilities with different LOTS of powder. Pick one set of data and stick with it, but always start at minimum and work up. It is the primary rule of reloading. ~Muir
 
I have never had a problem when starting at the minimum. Very dangerous to go way below the minimum, a newby might think, man that 50 gr kicked so hard I'm gonna try 25 gr next time. It could ruin your whole day!
 
I don't think anyone has mentioned this but if you find an accurate load I would just stop,no need to work all the way up to maximum load:thumb:.
dave
 
ALWAYS start at the minimum and use Powder data

no-one is suggesting you work up 5 round groups of each 0.2gr increment

personally I work from minimum but the lower ones are in much smaller quantities
I am discounting pressure issues at these levels not hunting for 5 round groups

often only one or two rounds (one is fine for me personally but not a representative number should there be an anomaly)
I use 0.2gr incrments in .222
I use 0.4gr or 0.6gr increments in .270 and 300WM

once an accuracy node is indicated I may fine tune either side of that in smaller increments...but usually don't

Looking at VV data for 130gr .270 using N160 (a combination tried and tested by myself)

8,4130SPRemington82,03.228N1603,3451.5gr8472779fps3,7658.0gr9403083fps

Low of 51.5gr
High of 58.0gr

a 1gr increment from low to high will see you with 8 charge levels
do 5 of each and you are a good way to half a box of bullets and primers!
a 0.5gr increments and 3 of each is 42 rounds!
5 of each is 70 rounds!
be there all bloody day!!

It is unlikely that you are looking for a 2770fps load so starting at this level is a safety concern not an accuracy one
I check the case and rifle operation for all the levels to exclude issues.

I personally would probably load the following combo in that scenario

1x51.5gr
1x52.5
3x53.5
3x54.5
3x55.5
3x56.5
3x57.5
1x58

if I hit a sweet spot half way through shooting that lot I would more than likely stop there, use the best charge level and tweak OAL, maybe tweak charge either side.
pull the rest of the high loads with a kinetic hammer and use the powder and components on a known accurate load

awful lot of people shooting this combo at between 54.5 and 56.5gr (me included)...why waste time and powder looking for a hotter load?

that's just my view,
people may/will disagree,
but I am pretty happy with the accuracy of my loads and none of them with the exception of one are anywhere near book max (and even that one is much slower than the book would indicate!! 78gr H1000 under 208gr Amax in 300win mag)
never had to lift a bolt with a hammer and my brass lasts an awfully long time!
 
ALWAYS start at the minimum and use Powder data

no-one is suggesting you work up 5 round groups of each 0.2gr increment

personally I work from minimum but the lower ones are in much smaller quantities
I am discounting pressure issues at these levels not hunting for 5 round groups

often only one or two rounds (one is fine for me personally but not a representative number should there be an anomaly)
I use 0.2gr incrments in .222
I use 0.4gr or 0.6gr increments in .270 and 300WM

once an accuracy node is indicated I may fine tune either side of that in smaller increments...but usually don't

Looking at VV data for 130gr .270 using N160 (a combination tried and tested by myself)

8,4130SPRemington82,03.228N1603,3451.5gr8472779fps3,7658.0gr9403083fps

Low of 51.5gr
High of 58.0gr

a 1gr increment from low to high will see you with 8 charge levels
do 5 of each and you are a good way to half a box of bullets and primers!
a 0.5gr increments and 3 of each is 42 rounds!
5 of each is 70 rounds!
be there all bloody day!!

It is unlikely that you are looking for a 2770fps load so starting at this level is a safety concern not an accuracy one
I check the case and rifle operation for all the levels to exclude issues.

I personally would probably load the following combo in that scenario

1x51.5gr
1x52.5
3x53.5
3x54.5
3x55.5
3x56.5
3x57.5
1x58

if I hit a sweet spot half way through shooting that lot I would more than likely stop there, use the best charge level and tweak OAL, maybe tweak charge either side.
pull the rest of the high loads with a kinetic hammer and use the powder and components on a known accurate load

awful lot of people shooting this combo at between 54.5 and 56.5gr (me included)...why waste time and powder looking for a hotter load?

that's just my view,
people may/will disagree,
but I am pretty happy with the accuracy of my loads and none of them with the exception of one are anywhere near book max (and even that one is much slower than the book would indicate!! 78gr H1000 under 208gr Amax in 300win mag)
never had to lift a bolt with a hammer and my brass lasts an awfully long time!

That's really interesting. not the way I do it, but I bet we end up with the same result with a similar number of rounds shot more often than not.

I was working up a 280AI today. Nosler data says 59.0 gr with R19 is most accurate so I made up 56, 56.5, 57, 57.5, 58, 58.5 and 59. I always go to 5% below max as a starting point and try to find where the max for my gun is before I start to look at groups.

At 59 there were no signs of any pressure at all. I hit the velocity figure I wanted at that point so didn't push my luck and see how much higher I could push it. Unfortunately I ran out of light before I could make up 3 more at 59 grains to see how they grouped, but the 58.5 and 59 both went through the same hole so I hope on Thursday when I can get into it again I might have a result.

Mind you, I have had guns in the past which have taken 3 or 4 powders and 3 different bullet weights to get accurate. Probably near 100 rounds which is painful. Not sure whether I am getting better at doing my homework beforehand or whether I'm just getting luckier.
 
Be aware of the difference in volume of various brass. Weigh your brass. If you have two or three different makes for a caliber, fill each to the brim with the same powder, dump it on the scales and see the difference, and scale down your max accordingly.

Invest in a chronograph. It will tell you world's about pressure and when you have passed the point of diminishing returns in velocity, while pressure is increasing very rapidly.

Load for consistent accuracy first and foremost. 100 fps is only like getting 40 yards closer.
 
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