Open ticket, but what about 'Target shooting'??

Grimmer

Active Member
I have an 'Open ticket' obviously allowing me to shoot on land I deem suitable, BUT does this allow me to target shoot at a local club which is in the process of setting up a rimfire range?
I know that if you have a ticket which states 'Target shooting' you are not allowed to then hunt with your rifle, but is it the same the other way round.
Just to be clear, I will not do anything until I am 110% certain of the law, but see no harm in asking the question on here in the first instance;);)
 
Mine states (after deer, vermin etc) "and for zeroing on ranges or land on which the holder has lawful authority to shoot".

So if your wording is similar, and you're "zeroing" and have authority, I reckon that makes it ok.

And I reckon if you were to make a habit of it and/or spend hours and hours doing it, and certainly if you compete..... that's probably beyond "zeroing".

But none of this constitutes advice.
 
Mine states (after deer, vermin etc) "and for zeroing on ranges or land on which the holder has lawful authority to shoot".

So if your wording is similar, and you're "zeroing" and have authority, I reckon that makes it ok.

And I reckon if you were to make a habit of it and/or spend hours and hours doing it, and certainly if you compete..... that's probably beyond "zeroing".

But none of this constitutes advice.

Mine states "Shall be used for the lawful shooting of vermin, ground game, fox and for zeroing on suitable land over which the certificate holder has authority to shoot"

So i'm assuming I would need to have an additional condition of 'Target shooting', as there is no mention of 'Ranges'?? Is there a specific point that you cease to be 'Zeroing' and you become 'Target shooting' or is this a bit of a grey area?? At the risk of sounding stupid, I have never had any dealings with clubs/target shooting, so have never needed to know any of this.
 
It's certainly a grey area in my head. That's one for your FEO I think, or Mike at BASC.

You could argue that a range is 'land over which you have authority to shoot' (assuming you do), but I wouldn't fancy testing that with her majesty. Especially since my own conditions indicate that a phrase exists purely for that purpose.
 
It's certainly a grey area in my head. That's one for your FEO I think, or Mike at BASC.

You could argue that a range is 'land over which you have authority to shoot' (assuming you do), but I wouldn't fancy testing that with her majesty. Especially since my own conditions indicate that a phrase exists purely for that purpose.

Exactly my thinking, I'll give F.E.O. a bell and let you know what he says.
 
You will need to apply for target shooting to be added to your FAC as it will need a separate condition for target shooting.

Mine reads:
5. The FIREARMS, SOUND MODERATORS and ammunition shall be used for target shooting only whilst a member of THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION or other Home Office approved Rifle and/or Muzzle Loading Pistol Club, on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim.

This is in addition to the "AOLQ and zeroing" conditions for my rifles which are 6. and 7.

Hope this helps

Cheers
iain
 
Last edited:
You will need to apply for target shooting to be added to your FAC as it will need a separate condition for target shooting.

Mine reads:
5. The FIREARMS, SOUND MODERATORS and ammunition shall be used for target shooting only whilst a member of THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION or other Home Office approved Rifle and/or Muzzle Loading Pistol Club, on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim.

This is in addition to the "AOLQ and zeroing" conditions for my rifles which are 6. and 7.

Hope this helps

Cheers
iain

Now you say this, I recall speaking with my FEO a good while back and him saying it was fine to zero at e.g. Bisley and a local club, but not if it was target shooting and not too often. The implication was that unless it was very obviously target shooting it could be considered zeroing. So the odd trip to the range would be fine, but if target shooting is going to be "a thing" for you, you'd definitely need it on your ticket.

I visit Bisley just 2 or 3 times a year (to zero :) ) , so my FEO said I really don't need it on my ticket. But I guess they put the bit about "on ranges..." in there because of me mentioning I wanted to do it.
 
All very helpful, cheers chaps, I've left a message for my F.E.O. and i'm just waiting for him to get back to me:thumb:
 
Now you say this, I recall speaking with my FEO a good while back and him saying it was fine to zero at e.g. Bisley and a local club, but not if it was target shooting and not too often. The implication was that unless it was very obviously target shooting it could be considered zeroing. So the odd trip to the range would be fine, but if target shooting is going to be "a thing" for you, you'd definitely need it on your ticket.

I visit Bisley just 2 or 3 times a year (to zero :) ) , so my FEO said I really don't need it on my ticket. But I guess they put the bit about "on ranges..." in there because of me mentioning I wanted to do it.

I target shoot, so needed the condition. If just zeroing, then the usual conditions are sufficient. Be aware that expanding ammo is frowned upon on MOD ranges, so be careful even when zeroing as they can get chippy
 
I'm sure FEOs are more than happy to give their interpretation on the law but you might as well go to the Home Office guidance and read it for yourself because nothing they stipulate has any authority unless it is clear in law or written in black and white on your certificate and signed by the main man.

You are not prohibited from target shooting. How can you be if what you need to shoot at to zero your rifle is a target? What if you want to check the point of impact from different positions on a buck target? Your trajectory and point of impact at different distances with a 4 inch circle target? It can all be done under the zeroing condition. There is a difference between this and competitions which would not be within the zeroing condition. This is why wording of branch range days don't say competition.
 
You will need to apply for target shooting to be added to your FAC as it will need a separate condition for target shooting.

Mine reads:
5. The FIREARMS, SOUND MODERATORS and ammunition shall be used for target shooting only whilst a member of THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION or other Home Office approved Rifle and/or Muzzle Loading Pistol Club, on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim.

This is in addition to the "AOLQ and zeroing" conditions for my rifles which are 6. and 7.

Hope this helps

Cheers
iain


this bit really should be questioned and removed its nothing to fo with the Fire arms law and is meaningless without a specific figure Of what is adequate £500k £1m £10m

I thought the new wording for Hunting was to be so that you could Shoot on ranges without any extra conditions needed
 
this bit really should be questioned and removed its nothing to fo with the Fire arms law and is meaningless without a specific figure Of what is adequate £500k £1m £10m

I thought the new wording for Hunting was to be so that you could Shoot on ranges without any extra conditions needed

This is specific to target shooting NOT zeroing on targets, so has nothing to do with hunting... I'm using non-expanding ammo ie gravel belly paper punching which was what OP was asking - or so I thought

I offered up what my FAC says to cover me for gravel belly paper punching in addition to my hunting conditions
 
This is specific to target shooting NOT zeroing on targets, so has nothing to do with hunting... I'm using non-expanding ammo ie gravel belly paper punching which was what OP was asking - or so I thought

I offered up what my FAC says to cover me for gravel belly paper punching in addition to my hunting conditions


Yes i know i was pointing out that the plod have no reason in law to require you have Insurance at a target range and the Sentence is nonsensical without a set figure you could shot a at range which has a £5m insurance your FEO decides (with no accident or incident ) that adiquate means in His Opinion £20m your now in breach of your FAC conditions based on an opinion


I was only Talking about the bit i Highlited in red and underlined

My FEO said they strongly recommend insurance for Hunting and was happy i had some but they couldnt insist


This is the HO guidance wording for the Target use condition i.e what they should use

9. Target Shooting

• The *calibre *RIFLE/MUZZLE-LOADING PISTOL/REVOLVER and ammunition shall be usedfor target shooting, and only whilst a member of *club1, on ranges which are legally and safelyconstructed and maintained.

1 Insert name of Home Office Approved Shooting Club.


heres the Quarry Wording from HO guidance Does mention ranges now But only for zeroing (my local club said they can allow Expanding ammo for Zeroing of hunting rifles but only a max of 10 shots under their rules)

1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer)
• The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR andammunition shall be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game/ deer (delete asappropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, on land deemed suitable bythe chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder haslawful authority to shoot.


(The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence.There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits).
 
Last edited:
Yes i know i was pointing out that the plod have no reason in law to require you have Insurance at a target range and the Sentence is nonsensical without a set figure you could shot a at range which has a £5m insurance your FEO decides (with no accident or incident ) that adiquate means in His Opinion £20m your now in breach of your FAC conditions based on an opinion


I was only Talking about the bit i Highlited in red and underlined

My FEO said they strongly recommend insurance for Hunting and was happy i had some but they couldnt insist

Ah, fair point and well presented, however... I read that as applicable to the range, not the shooter
 
Ah, fair point and well presented, however... I read that as applicable to the range, not the shooter

Yes that is applicable to the range not the shooter, it was brought it to stop any tom dick and harry setting up a range on their land after the military decided to stop inspecting ranges and issuing safety certificates.

Ian.
 
Ah, fair point and well presented, however... I read that as applicable to the range, not the shooter

Yes that is applicable to the range not the shooter, it was brought it to stop any tom dick and harry setting up a range on their land after the military decided to stop inspecting ranges and issuing safety certificates.

Ian.


maybe and yes I Understood it as the range insurance but it is a condition on YOUR FAC to make sure the Range has "Adequate" Insurance IF you do not then you are in breach of YOUR conditions if the FEO decided the Range insurance IS not "Adequate" to some notional figure in their head

and as i said its NOT HO guidance which was updated This year
 
maybe and yes I Understood it as the range insurance but it is a condition on YOUR FAC to make sure the Range has "Adequate" Insurance IF you do not then you are in breach of YOUR conditions if the FEO decided the Range insurance IS not "Adequate" to some notional figure in their head

and as i said its NOT HO guidance which was updated This year

I only shoot on the ranges at Bisley, so to be blunt, anywhere else is someone else's problem
 
I'm sure FEOs are more than happy to give their interpretation on the law but you might as well go to the Home Office guidance and read it for yourself because nothing they stipulate has any authority unless it is clear in law or written in black and white on your certificate and signed by the main man.

You are not prohibited from target shooting. How can you be if what you need to shoot at to zero your rifle is a target? What if you want to check the point of impact from different positions on a buck target? Your trajectory and point of impact at different distances with a 4 inch circle target? It can all be done under the zeroing condition. There is a difference between this and competitions which would not be within the zeroing condition. This is why wording of branch range days don't say competition.

I agree, except for the suggestion that shooting at a target to check a zero is a different kind of target-shooting from shooting at a target to practice, which in turn is different from shooting at a target in a competition.
I think in law they'd be hard-pressed to make that work in front of a judge. They're all target-practice - which is, of course, the practice (or act) of shooting at targets.

Having said that, I would advise anyone who hasn't got it simply to heave a big sigh and ask for a target-shooting condition, to remove any doubt.
 
Last edited:
Having said that, I would advise anyone who hasn't got to simply heave a big sigh and ask for a target-shooting condition, to remove any doubt.

I think I was told that I can't have a "target" clause on there unless I'm a member of a club. Which is a bit crap.
 
I think I was told that I can't have a "target" clause on there unless I'm a member of a club. Which is a bit crap.
Many clubs allow guests to shoot, and there are ranges where you can simply turn up, pay and shoot (e.g. Minsterley). If you're intending to make use of such facilities, it seems odd that your FLD should deny you the necessary condition.
Perhaps you should ask them to reconsider. If you were thinking of going it only a couple of times a year, actually joining a club might not be worth the effort or expense.
 
Back
Top