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Thread: South African Elephant

  1. #1

    South African Elephant

    Cue more Cecil the Lion outrage with this one:

    Anger as the ‘biggest elephant shot in living memory’ is killed by a German hunter in Zimbabwean game park | Daily Mail Online

    However, as far a I can see, the chap is a fellow Blaser user and none of the DM readers seem to be upset about it.....

    What a reassuring display of tolerance!

  2. #2
    Amazing trophy, if you were going to shoot one for the wall then this is definitely the one

  3. #3
    I also recognise the PH as Nixon Dzingai one of the few black PHs in Africa which in itself is a success story.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumbrian 1 View Post
    Amazing trophy, if you were going to shoot one for the wall then this is definitely the one
    You'd need a bloomin big wall!

  5. #5
    My view on all this cecil the lion etc business is this - If you're killing an animal for food, environmental conservation or for the animals welfare (IE its injured) then fine go ahead. I guess I'd also add on your own welfare as well, so if you're being chased by a wolf I think its probably fair game for it to end up in your crosshairs! Or in the case of lion hunting managing the population down so that local farmers arent getting attacked whilst working outdoors, I can see the need for that.

    There is a little bit of me that is against killing something for the sole reason of hanging its head on your wall, not for any of the reasons mentioned above, and I get the impression a lot of big game hunting in Africa is permitted purely for financial reasons, not that I have an issue with that in particular either - If thats what brings the tourists and what kept a roof over my families head then I'd be doing the same.

    The downside of that is that it is in the locals interest to ensure that any trophy hunters get to take a beast, any beast, and they therefore arent too fussed about what they kill. So therefore I wonder how effective the cull management is? We all know its not just a case of "kill x% of the estimated population" and factors such as the animals condition, the environment, age, sex etc all play a part.

    I also wonder how much of the money these trophy hunters pay out actually makes it into the hands of conservationists?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumbrian 1 View Post
    I also recognise the PH as Nixon Dzingai one of the few black PHs in Africa which in itself is a success story.
    In view of the inevitable witch hunt which has just started it might be a good idea not to post the PH's name on the forum? That said, cracking elephant, if it really was only $60,000 then it was a bargain.
    Last edited by Patrick A; 16-10-2015 at 09:25.

  7. #7
    why haven't the media given the elephant a human name yet?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick A View Post
    In view of the inevitable witch hunt which has just started it might be a good idea not to post the PH's name on the forum? That said, cracking elephant, if it really was only $60,000 then it was a bargain.
    I wouldn't worry it's all over FB and there are numerous reports on other African hunting forums. I am sure Nixon isn't bothered after all Cecil the lion stirred zero interest in Zimbabwe. Interestingly the case against the Cecil the lion PH was dropped after the judge decided there was no case to answer, though the media have been slow to report this.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by stubear View Post
    My view on all this cecil the lion etc business is this - If you're killing an animal for food, environmental conservation or for the animals welfare (IE its injured) then fine go ahead. I guess I'd also add on your own welfare as well, so if you're being chased by a wolf I think its probably fair game for it to end up in your crosshairs! Or in the case of lion hunting managing the population down so that local farmers arent getting attacked whilst working outdoors, I can see the need for that.

    There is a little bit of me that is against killing something for the sole reason of hanging its head on your wall, not for any of the reasons mentioned above, and I get the impression a lot of big game hunting in Africa is permitted purely for financial reasons, not that I have an issue with that in particular either - If thats what brings the tourists and what kept a roof over my families head then I'd be doing the same.

    The downside of that is that it is in the locals interest to ensure that any trophy hunters get to take a beast, any beast, and they therefore arent too fussed about what they kill. So therefore I wonder how effective the cull management is? We all know its not just a case of "kill x% of the estimated population" and factors such as the animals condition, the environment, age, sex etc all play a part.

    I also wonder how much of the money these trophy hunters pay out actually makes it into the hands of conservationists?
    How deluded, game populations require management in most southern African countries. Elephants for example have been limited to certain parks and areas within Zimbabwe, Hwange national park was meant to hold 4,000 elephants, it now holds nearly 50,000. In the late 80s they culled 15,000 elephants over two years in the park but lack of funds has meant that the cull was stopped and population soared resulting in severe deforestation and dust bowl conditions. Naturally elephants would wander freely changing forest to savannah in a great cycle over may hundreds of years.

    The money raised from hunting goes back into either the parks or in the conservancies to pay for wardens and various conservation projects, Africa is a great example of how hunting and conservation goes hand in hand.


    The good thing about trophy hunting is that you target old animals that are past their prime, have spread their genes and by removing them it doesn't upset the population dynamics. Yes hunting in Africa costs money but that in itself isn't a bad thing, if you give an animal a value it means something to the locals, take that value away and that animal is simply seen as a source of protein.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumbrian 1 View Post
    How deluded, game populations require management in most southern African countries. Elephants for example have been limited to certain parks and areas within Zimbabwe, Hwange national park was meant to hold 4,000 elephants, it now holds nearly 50,000. In the late 80s they culled 15,000 elephants over two years in the park but lack of funds has meant that the cull was stopped and population soared resulting in severe deforestation and dust bowl conditions. Naturally elephants would wander freely changing forest to savannah in a great cycle over may hundreds of years.

    The money raised from hunting goes back into either the parks or in the conservancies to pay for wardens and various conservation projects, Africa is a great example of how hunting and conservation goes hand in hand.


    The good thing about trophy hunting is that you target old animals that are past their prime, have spread their genes and by removing them it doesn't upset the population dynamics. Yes hunting in Africa costs money but that in itself isn't a bad thing, if you give an animal a value it means something to the locals, take that value away and that animal is simply seen as a source of protein.
    Ok you may not agree with me, not sure I appreciate being called deluded for having an opinion which doesnt align with yours. But anyway, ignoring that...

    I'm not aware of the stats on population numbers but surely you would agree that its in the locals interests to have a larger than ideal population of X animal (in this case elephants) to ensure that when a foreign hunter who has paid north of $30k for the privelege of hunting such an animal there be one present for them to shoot?

    I read a BASC article a while back about red deer in scotland and they apparently have the same issue, where the woodland conservationists are pushing for a reduction in deer number to allow struggling trees to grow above 18" tall and the hunting lodges are pushing back because they want to ensure a high population of reds for people to shoot. After all, if you spent a couple of grand on a weeks hunting (and some do) and then didnt see a dicky-bird you probably would be less inclined to make a repeat trip.

    In light of that line of thought I dont think its unreasonable to ask what basis the hunting lodge selects cull animals on? Are they just saying "Thank god, theres an elephant, quick shoot it" or are they pushing the hunters towards suitable cull beasts? From what you've said it sounds like they do and perhaps thats the really simple answer to the question in which case ok, cool, I'm fine with that. I dont know the answer, hence why I was asking.

    I'm pro-hunting (hopefully obviously - otherwise this would be a pretty silly forum to join!), just my personal view on hunting is that you should do it for food, conservation or animal welfare reasons. Just my humble opinion, nothing more. I'm not saying trophy hunting should be outlawed or anything like that, and if the reason for the shoots is they have 10x the number of elephants they had 20 years ago and thats the issue they want to address (conservation) then thats also fine with me, no complaints here.

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