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Thread: Another HMR Thread

  1. #1

    Another HMR Thread

    After all the recent threads on HMR ammo issues and viewing the previous threads there is obviously a common fault with the ammo being inconsistent. What are people's thoughts/opinions/knowledge on why the inconsistencies exist and why some people/rifles just can't get on with them.

    A few I can think of are,

    All ammo (apart from Winchester) is made in the same place so if one brand isn't very good then by some logic all will be the same

    The ammo is loaded to the same specs so if your rifle doesn't like that spec it won't produce the best groups

    The split necks lead to different neck tension and therefore different pressures and velocity and so larger group sizes

    The split necks may cause powder to be contaminated by moisture and therefore different burn rates

    These are just my thoughts on the matter and I may be wildly off on these theories so I'd like to hear what others think. This then leads on to changing my HMR for a WMR as by my logic it would remove the split neck issue (and problems associated) and also there is a much wider choice of bullet type and weight so with trial and error I should be able to find a combo that works well in whatever WMR rifle I chose. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I think the source of the problem does not matter because even knowing will not help. I like HMR because I find 22LR way too bouncy, I'd like to know if WMR is similar.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaothead View Post
    I think the source of the problem does not matter because even knowing will not help. I like HMR because I find 22LR way too bouncy, I'd like to know if WMR is similar.
    ++1

  4. #4
    Not sure there are any split necks before firing, so "keeping your powder dry" won't be an issue. I recently went through a box of CCI 20 grains and just checked the empties when I read this. Out of the 50, 9 had some sort of split on the neck. Others looked to have been near to splitting. However, I noticed no difference when I fired them, all going to the point of aim or within an acceptable group. At one point I was shooting golf balls at 100 yards and hit them consistently 8 times in a row.

    You do hear stories of a round going "phut" and the projectile lodging in the barrel, but after literally hundreds of rounds, that's never happened to me, nor anyone I know. It obviously does happen, but I can't think it's very common. I read somewhere that the splits happen because they can't anneal the brass as happens with other cartridges for some reason and as a result, the metal is less ductile. Could have been on here or elsewhere I read that. I suppose the answer is that if there is something funny about a shot, check the barrel without fail. But you'd do that anyway, wouldn't you?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaothead View Post
    I think the source of the problem does not matter because even knowing will not help. I like HMR because I find 22LR way too bouncy, I'd like to know if WMR is similar.
    Never had a problem with my WMR nor the ammo (shoot Hornady 30gr) - best part of 800 rnds a year on average and not a squib or flyer to be seen - 2200fps and hits hard out to 120 - absolutely cock-on
    Last edited by Hereford; 21-10-2015 at 21:33.
    For Gods sake - don't tell her how much I've spent

    Ctrl-Alt FACT

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hereford View Post
    Never had a problem with my WMR nor the ammo (shoot Hornady 30gr) - best part of 800 rnds a year on average and not a squib or flyer to be seen - 2200fps and hits hard out to 120 - absolutely cock-on
    This.

    I had 452s in both, I chopped the WMR against a .223 as I'd put a lot of work into the stock of the HMR and didn't want to let it go. Basically I instantly regretted it! I also found the HMR was far more prone to ricochet than the WMR.

    Best of all should you feel the need you can te WMR in semi auto flavour, I've got one waiting for my variation at the RFD

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    Not sure there are any split necks before firing, so "keeping your powder dry" won't be an issue. I recently went through a box of CCI 20 grains and just checked the empties when I read this. Out of the 50, 9 had some sort of split on the neck. Others looked to have been near to splitting. However, I noticed no difference when I fired them, all going to the point of aim or within an acceptable group. At one point I was shooting golf balls at 100 yards and hit them consistently 8 times in a row.

    You do hear stories of a round going "phut" and the projectile lodging in the barrel, but after literally hundreds of rounds, that's never happened to me, nor anyone I know. It obviously does happen, but I can't think it's very common. I read somewhere that the splits happen because they can't anneal the brass as happens with other cartridges for some reason and as a result, the metal is less ductile. Could have been on here or elsewhere I read that. I suppose the answer is that if there is something funny about a shot, check the barrel without fail. But you'd do that anyway, wouldn't you?
    Not sure there are any split necks before firing??? Where have you been? I have 5 rounds in the cabinet that have been removed from the boxes they were in as they had split necks. My first shot on a rabbit (after 80 odd rounds on paper) with my HMR resulted in a bullet lodged in the barrel almost certainly damp powder due to the split neck the cartridge had. I checked the rest of the box and the other box of 50 (hornady blue tipped) 7 out of 100 had split necks so they went straight back to the RFD.

    My HMR hasn't been out since I got the hornet, literally, to makeway for the new WMR self loader I've agreed a sale with a lad from my club. I thought I'd take it out one last time last week, out of 20 rounds I had a hang fire and it instantly reminded me why I'd switched to .22H. Useful little round let down by bad ammo!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy47 View Post
    Not sure there are any split necks before firing??? Where have you been? I have 5 rounds in the cabinet that have been removed from the boxes they were in as they had split necks. My first shot on a rabbit (after 80 odd rounds on paper) with my HMR resulted in a bullet lodged in the barrel almost certainly damp powder due to the split neck the cartridge had. I checked the rest of the box and the other box of 50 (hornady blue tipped) 7 out of 100 had split necks so they went straight back to the RFD
    .

    My HMR hasn't been out since I got the hornet, literally, to makeway for the new WMR self loader I've agreed a sale with a lad from my club. I thought I'd take it out one last time last week, out of 20 rounds I had a hang fire and it instantly reminded me why I'd switched to .22H. Useful little round let down by bad ammo!
    Yes I check ammo when I get home from the rfd and always find some with split necks, mostly hairline cracks but some pretty obvious. Only checked 10 rounds yesterday when I got in and one had a noticeable crack.

  9. #9
    I had a fair few issues with HMR ammo until I realised that most of the issue lay in the bedding of the rifle! That and the cleaning regime. Can't speak for everyone but these are my own findings and thoughts:

    • Ammo gets a bad rep sometimes unfairly where the issue may be elsewhere
    • I have never had a split case in 1000 rounds so wonder if this could possibly be influenced by chamber dimensions?
    • bedding appears critical: Increasing the float around the barrel, and a little bedding work worked wonders for precision of grouping;
    • Cleaning regime is more critical for this little calibre than most give it justice


    The last point is important so worth elaboration. Like many, I started off with just a simple regime as with many rimfires, just using the rifle, and dry patching after use, not worrying too much about over-cleaning the barrel except on initial break in where I followed a strict cleaning and de-coppering regime for the first 50 rounds. I could never get it to group properly so like others jumped on the "lets blame the ammo" bandwagon.

    However; a few tell tale signs started to show. Frustrated at missing so many 100yd crow, i set up at a range to do some ammo comparisons, and after stringing perhaps 15 rounds, noticed that the groups started to pull together to 2.5cm at 100m. It got me to thinking that if there was too much copper deposited, this would be the result as the hot barrel expanding fractionally would allow greater precision resulting in the tighter groups. I then cleaned the bore thoroughly including de-coppering and tried another group. This time, from cold, the rifle shot sub moa.

    I carried on shooting controlled groups over a few days until I had shot perhaps 75 rounds, maybe 100 with just a pull through of a bore snake every 15 or 20 rounds. The groups started opening up noticeably past 75 rounds, so I gave it another clean and de-copper and tried again. This time, it shot 1.5cm groups at 100m from cold.

    Since then, I have regularly checked stock screws and stuck to that cleaning regime and can shoot Hornady or Remington boat tail ammo with the same results....sub moa groups.

    Not saying it'll be the same for everyone. Just my own findings. Have gone to .223 now and use a 22LR for close range stuff as prefer it to the HMR anyway (nice and silent moderated).
    Last edited by ChesterP; 22-10-2015 at 08:11.

  10. #10
    There is an on going issue with HMR ammo and its no good just taking it back to the seller as nothing will be done. Its all CE marked so you must inform your local trading standards department who need to investigate. This will be the only way to get the problem sorted.

    Also agree re richochets with HMR not used one much but recently was helping a friend zero up a NV unit and was worried about the number of richohets.

    D

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