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Thread: one for one variation question

  1. #1

    one for one variation question

    Hi All,

    I have had a lengthy chat with my FLO today and now i'm none the wiser.
    I am going to change my 6.5x55 and get myself a blaser .270. what i wanted to do was get a slot on my ticket for a 270 before i got rid of the 6.5 then i wont be without a rifle.
    As i've got a 17hmr that i dont use i thought i'd simply do a 1 for 1 swapping the 17 for a .270 then i could get rid of the 6x5 at my leisure. he told me that i needed to fill in a variation form and send a letter asking for a temperary permit for the 17 then i could take up to 2 months to sell it. he said that if i sell the hmr first then apply for a 270 it wont be a one for one?
    When doing a one for one do you have to dispose of the unwanted calibre first?
    All i want to do is sell the HMR, get a slot for a .270 then when i've bought a new rifle i'll sell the 6.5 and i was sure there was a simple way of doing this.
    what is the best way to do this?

    Ezzy

  2. #2
    Ezzy,

    A One For One variation (for free) means just that, you want to replace one rifle for another "of the same calibre" (and it can get anal on the case size).

    If you want an additional calibre and give up another calibre then you have to pay for your variation (s). It's best to add a new calibre on a paid variation and leave it at that. If you no longer "need" a calibre then just sell the rifles and only "give up the slots" at renewal as, obviously you don't need them as you have no rifles in that calibre.

    Stan

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by smullery View Post
    Ezzy,

    A One For One variation (for free) means just that, you want to replace one rifle for another "of the same calibre" (and it can get anal on the case size).

    If you want an additional calibre and give up another calibre then you have to pay for your variation (s). It's best to add a new calibre on a paid variation and leave it at that. If you no longer "need" a calibre then just sell the rifles and only "give up the slots" at renewal as, obviously you don't need them as you have no rifles in that calibre.
    Are you sure about that Stan? In my force area a 'one for one' variation can be for a rifle of the same calibre or a change of calibre and both are free of charge. Can't find the details listed on their website but it looks to be the same situation in Northumbria as well, ( and probably most other right thinking constabularies. );

    http://www.northumbria.police.uk/adv...ing/variation/

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member tartinjock's Avatar
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    I wanted to change my .243 for a 22-250 and change my .308 for a .270, I spoke to my FLO and they said, stick in a one for one, they will give the authority to do just thst. I could drop it off my FAC on the Tuesady and collect on the Friday, ideal as I was picking up my new rifles the following day.

    My ticket came back with the wording something along the lines of-

    The 22-250 and 22-250 moderator can only be bought on disposal of the .243 and .243 moderator, the .270 and .270 moderator can only be bought on disposal of the .308 and .308 moderator.

    Something like that anyway. It meant that I RFD to RFD my .243 in Tain sold my .308 in Tain, picked up my .270 in Tain on the same day and then picked up my 22-250 in Inverness the same day, easy peasy.

    Saved being without a rifle at any point. Northern Constabulary are extremely helpful.

    TJ
    Position and hold must be firm enough to support the firearm
    The firearm must point naturally at the target without any undue physical effort
    Sight alignment (aiming) must be correct
    The shot must be released and followed through without disturbing the position

  5. #5
    Guys,

    Good news that your respective Constabularies are enlightened, but, technically:

    “One for one” variations

    10.51 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired
    at the same time as one is being disposed of. For practical purposes this is normally taken to be within seven days. The use of authorities which can be kept open indefinitely should be discouraged. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed form 101 to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further inquiries will be necessary, however, if for example
    the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.

    If you want a new calibre then you should show need. Having a .243 and wanting a .50 does not mean a 141 variation.....

    Stan

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by smullery View Post
    Guys,

    Good news that your respective Constabularies are enlightened, but, technically:

    “One for one” variations

    10.51 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired
    at the same time as one is being disposed of. For practical purposes this is normally taken to be within seven days. The use of authorities which can be kept open indefinitely should be discouraged. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed form 101 to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further inquiries will be necessary, however, if for example
    the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.

    If you want a new calibre then you should show need. Having a .243 and wanting a .50 does not mean a 141 variation.....

    Stan
    Where's the technicality in that extract from the HO Guidance you've quoted?

    It emphasises the fact that a variation is required even if it's same calibre for same calibre, (Wilson v Coombe), and states that 'further enquiries will be neccessary' under certain circumstances - the rather extreme example of going from a .243 to a .50 would fall into that category but nonetheless it would still be a one-for-one variation and therefore, as highlighted above, 'processed free of charge', which answers your original point about payment being required.

    As tartinjock has demonstrated, if the calibres are similar and there is no change of use involved, then the process should be relatively simple, (obviously depending on the force area you live in! ).

    If you've been paying for one-for-one variations up to now then it might be time to put in a request for a refund.

  7. #7
    Oh what tosh,

    Even the unenlightened in Lincolnshire can manage a one for one variation and I am just doing one now swopping a .222 for a 7.62mm and it's free being a one for one. I am swopping one C/F rifle for another C/F rifle. I also did the same last November swopping a .243 for a 25-06. Now if we ocould only get the Plods to understand that 25-06 is a cartidge and not a calibre .25 is the calibre and has bugger all to do with the chambering.

  8. #8
    Right i'm getting there now,
    what i'm unsure of is at what point i have to get rid of the rifle i don't need. FLO told me if i sold it prior to applying for a 1-4-1 it wouldn't be a one for one variation, he said i'd need to apply for a temp permit which is a new one on me. i have done them in the past but cant remember how it went. As for it being calibre specific i did a 1-4-1 from a 44 remington black powder revolver to a .308 a few years ago.

    Ezzy

  9. #9
    ezzy - the clue is in the wording:

    10.51 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired
    at the same time as one is being disposed of
    .

    A (free) 141 has to be done at the same time - so you sell and buy the two rifles on the same day (typically to/from an RFD rather than a private sale).

    If you sell one before you apply for the 141, or if you want to sell your existing rifle to someone and buy the new one from someone else, and can't arrange to do this on the same day, then you may have to pay for a standard variation.

  10. #10
    Pippa
    I dont understand that one. You cannot get a variation for a new same calibre on a 141 basis until you sell the existing rifle ( I Thought). In otherwords you sell one rifle inform the law by letter along with your variation form. Cannot buy new weapon until variation comes back granted.
    This is what my experience has been with several sales/buys with Strathclyde. Maybe some areas do things different.

    Cheeers

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