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Thread: Leica Bins

  1. #1

    Leica Bins

    Hi folks.

    Is anybody else out there disappointed, to say the least, with the last/first light performance of their new Leica HDs?

    I was out the other night and spotted something, glassed with the bins, nowt. Looked through the scope, doe stood there clear as day about 120 yards.

    Bare in mind, this was just my Duralyt and not my HT..

    Not what I expected from a two grand pair of binoculars. Zeiss all the way for me, from now on..

    Any thoughts?
    cjs

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cjs66 View Post
    Hi folks.

    Is anybody else out there disappointed, to say the least, with the last/first light performance of their new Leica HDs?

    I was out the other night and spotted something, glassed with the bins, nowt. Looked through the scope, doe stood there clear as day about 120 yards.

    Bare in mind, this was just my Duralyt and not my HT..

    Not what I expected from a two grand pair of binoculars. Zeiss all the way for me, from now on..

    Any thoughts?
    cjs
    Having owned 2 pairs of Zeiss RFs as well as the old Leica HDs and now the HDbs I can say that the light transmission through the Leicas is head and shoulders better than the zeiss.. The beam splitter and laser receiving mat in the right barrel of the zeiss has the same effect as putting a sheet over the objective when it starts to go dark!!!

    What's the objective on your scope? if it's 56mm then of course it will be brighter than your 42mm bins and will be hugely brighter than your 43mm zeiss... the only way round it is to get bins with 56mm objectives (although the transmission on the zeiss RFs will still be rubbish in comparison) but, having done that... the extra bulk and weight is too much!

    Ultimately you must remember that, due to the mechanics of incorporating the range finder and display etc... light transmission will always be compromised so comparing a non RF optic with a RF optic, even same brand/model, will give significantly different results
    Last edited by Vipa; 11-11-2015 at 10:49.

  3. #3
    Hi Vipa..

    As I said in the post, I was just comparing them to a 3-12x50 Duralyt. Not the best scope at dusk and dawn. But way better than the binoculars..

    Surprised really… Apart from low light they are fantastic but, as we all know, low light is when it all happens.

    Regards. cjs

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by cjs66 View Post
    Hi Vipa..

    As I said in the post, I was just comparing them to a 3-12x50 Duralyt. Not the best scope at dusk and dawn. But way better than the binoculars..

    Surprised really… Apart from low light they are fantastic but, as we all know, low light is when it all happens.

    Regards. cjs
    You are always going to find that with RF bins... it is always going to be a compromise... The difference in light transmission between Duralyt and HT won't be huge... and remember, your scope has no prism, electronics and beam splitter sucking light plus an extra 8mm of objective glass... Out of all the rf bins I have owned & used, the only ones that are (slightly) brighter at last light are the swaros but it is marginal.

  5. #5
    Yeah, you are prob right.
    It was just a bit of a surprise really. It's my first pair of RF bins, used to use a small Nikon RF with my Minox bins..
    Thanks for the info..

    cjs

  6. #6
    interesting

    I would previously have sold a kidney for a pair of the new Leica HD+B 8x42 or 56's

    never looked through them in the dark but when i did look through them in the day I found them very clear
    I had a pair of (non RF) ultravids 8x42 that were also very clear night and day

    had the total opposite to what you describe when looking at a buck in the last light, put the rifle up.....nothing!

    is this a problem with RF bins?
    also what zoom did you have the scope on?
    3-8x50 is always going to be better/lighter image than 8x42

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cjs66 View Post
    Yeah, you are prob right.
    It was just a bit of a surprise really. It's my first pair of RF bins, used to use a small Nikon RF with my Minox bins..
    Thanks for the info..

    cjs
    I can see more at last light through my Zeiss Victory HT 3-12x56 than I can through my RF bins... but I would expect to... at the end of the day, once it gets to the point I am struggling to see through my bins, it doesn't matter how much I can see through my scope... for all practical purposes, it's too late to take the shot

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    interesting

    I would previously have sold a kidney for a pair of the new Leica HD+B 8x42 or 56's

    never looked through them in the dark but when i did look through them in the day I found them very clear
    I had a pair of (non RF) ultravids 8x42 that were also very clear night and day

    had the total opposite to what you describe when looking at a buck in the last light, put the rifle up.....nothing!

    is this a problem with RF bins?
    also what zoom did you have the scope on?
    3-8x50 is always going to be better/lighter image than 8x42
    Yes, it is all RF bins Ed... They all have to have some way of receiving the laser pulse, this usually takes the form of some kind of overlay on the glass elements or a beam splitter which send some of the light to the circuitry, which ever method is employed you are robbing light that would normally make it through to the ocular with non RF bins... you then have to have a method of projecting the data onto the ocular.. again, this will involve beam splitters and modified prisms.. It is usually only one barrel that is affected but it takes away from the whole in use..

    As technology has progressed the effect has become less but the issue is still there... like for like non RF bins will always perform better than their RF counterparts... It's not a deal breaking difference though. I certainly wouldn't be without my RFs even though for all intents and purposes, I probably Don't need the RF... Amazing how quick it becomes a part of your kit... bit like sat nav... do I need it?... not at all... would I want to be without it?... absolutely not!!!!

  9. #9
    bewsher500

    The scope will of been on around 6 or 8 mag. It's a 3-12 x 50 Duralyt.

    As you say, the Leicas are very clear and bright, up until last light. I'm not rubbishing them, I was just more than a bit surprised at the light gathering difference compared to a middle of the road scope.

    cjs

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vipa View Post
    Yes, it is all RF bins Ed... They all have to have some way of receiving the laser pulse, this usually takes the form of some kind of overlay on the glass elements or a beam splitter which send some of the light to the circuitry, which ever method is employed you are robbing light that would normally make it through to the ocular with non RF bins... you then have to have a method of projecting the data onto the ocular.. again, this will involve beam splitters and modified prisms.. It is usually only one barrel that is affected but it takes away from the whole in use..

    As technology has progressed the effect has become less but the issue is still there... like for like non RF bins will always perform better than their RF counterparts... It's not a deal breaking difference though. I certainly wouldn't be without my RFs even though for all intents and purposes, I probably Don't need the RF... Amazing how quick it becomes a part of your kit... bit like sat nav... do I need it?... not at all... would I want to be without it?... absolutely not!!!!
    Vipa.
    In general, I would agree with you that due to the beam splitter, conventional binoculars have a higher light transmission value than their RF equivalent, except with one particular model, where the RF has a higher measured light transmission value than their standard model ( based on viewed light transmission measured data).

    This particular RF is over 90% and has the highest light transmission for an RF. For standard binoculars an Abbé Koenig roof prism ( as in some of the Swarovski SLC and Zeiss Victory HT) the transmission tends to be higher than the other roof prism types (Schmidt Pechan). The SP however tends to have less stray light than the AK prism ( like for like models). The SP roof prism binoculars can have other positive values in size, colour rendition etc
    Last edited by mak; 11-11-2015 at 17:08.

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