Lynx UK Trust - can't even agree on the right species

Leadwasp

Well-Known Member
Fascinating disagreement in the comments section of September 2 at https://www.facebook.com/lynxuktrust/ "Where are the proposed release sites?" ......where there is a debate about the right species to re-introduce. Mark Langford seem to be using the right stick to prod with. I wonder if the public realise that the Lynx they want to introduce can never never be our historical species. The comments on this page are generally representative of rabid eco-warriors, their view on farming and pest control are as entertaining as they are warped.
 
Feral cats are nuisance enough. I've got a neighbour who allows her cats to breed outside and never attempts to have the kittens indoors. I've shot 3 recently, up to quarter of a mile from her house.
 
Not sure that the pumas are going to like their territories invaded by lynx - you should be able to hear the discussion some distance away. :)
 
Feral cats are nuisance enough. I've got a neighbour who allows her cats to breed outside and never attempts to have the kittens indoors. I've shot 3 recently, up to quarter of a mile from her house.

Do pet cats have to have collars or be chipped, etc, for identification as I hate them and have never had one as a pet? Just wondering how to tell a feral cat from someones pet as we suddenly have loads around where we live and I'm sure they are not all pets, includng a right scruffy 3 legged thing!! Most of them leg it when approached and won't come close to my kids when they try to stroke them, which to me means they don't have much human interaction,

Stratts
 
Do pet cats have to have collars or be chipped, etc, for identification as I hate them and have never had one as a pet? Just wondering how to tell a feral cat from someones pet as we suddenly have loads around where we live and I'm sure they are not all pets, includng a right scruffy 3 legged thing!! Most of them leg it when approached and won't come close to my kids when they try to stroke them, which to me means they don't have much human interaction,

Stratts
Cats are a legal oddball you can't shoot wild cats, you can shoot feral cats, you can shoot pet cats with the owners OK but if you don't get their OK you could be charged with criminal damage not sure how you work out pet from feral though
 
I was always told by my old keeper, "the only safe cat is the one on the owners lap!" When I see tabatha I loose my old BGS Xena she hates them.
 
Just been at a very inresting talk on the scottish wild cat, there will be a very big issue if the 2 are in the same area both lynx predating wildcats and competing for food.
Funny an animal that is genetically the same as wot has always lived here and is probably as rare as any cat species might get killed out by a re-intro species.

Biggest threat to wild cats is hybridisation with domestic cats, cat protection think there could be 1.5 million feral cats in UK, 5 estates in a trial area shot 3000 feral cats in a few years
 
Stratts very difficult to tell the difference as both have a black cross on them prior to being shot.
 
Biggest threat to wild cats is hybridisation with domestic cats, cat protection think there could be 1.5 million feral cats in UK, 5 estates in a trial area shot 3000 feral cats in a few years[/QUOTE]

Where were the 5 estates? In Scotland? That's a lot of cats. I can't understand why they waste funding money on neutering feral cats surely they are competing for food by releasing them again. Fair enough having a scheme to neuter people's pets but feral cats? We used to keep cats and there were several times when we reckoned a wild cat had bred with them as the kittens looked like typical wildcats. If reintroducing lynx would see a great up surge in tourism of people desperate to see a shy secretive creature with little chance of an actual sighting then why isn't there already this situation with our own indigenous scottish wildcat, the circumstances are exactly the same. Just another case of Half arsed conservation and giving a species 15 mins of fame to fill their pockets.
 
Cats are a legal oddball you can't shoot wild cats, you can shoot feral cats, you can shoot pet cats with the owners OK but if you don't get their OK you could be charged with criminal damage not sure how you work out pet from feral though[/QUOTE

The ones that sit still are feral:D
 
Biggest threat to wild cats is hybridisation with domestic cats, cat protection think there could be 1.5 million feral cats in UK, 5 estates in a trial area shot 3000 feral cats in a few years

Where were the 5 estates? In Scotland? That's a lot of cats. I can't understand why they waste funding money on neutering feral cats surely they are competing for food by releasing them again. Fair enough having a scheme to neuter people's pets but feral cats? We used to keep cats and there were several times when we reckoned a wild cat had bred with them as the kittens looked like typical wildcats. If reintroducing lynx would see a great up surge in tourism of people desperate to see a shy secretive creature with little chance of an actual sighting then why isn't there already this situation with our own indigenous scottish wildcat, the circumstances are exactly the same. Just another case of Half arsed conservation and giving a species 15 mins of fame to fill their pockets.[/QUOTE]

I was sat in a meeting of the great and good of Scottish Wildcat Conservation last year when the management of trapped suspected Wildcats which turned out to be ferals was discussed. Out of 35 people there was an overwhelming majority that wanted the ferals destroyed. The reasoning behind this was, as you suggest, That there was no point neutering them to then put them back into potential wildcat territories for there to be increased competition over food.

My belief is that many of the larger organisations are bloody terrified of upsetting a very very vocal minority.

Why would a gamekeeper go to the trouble of passing a suspected SWC onto the authorities to have it tested for genetic purity, to then, if it failed have a neutered feral given back to him for release ???? It goes without saying that a feral is not a protected species but a SWC is. In conservation terms the area of hybridised SWCs is becoming blurred as to their status.

Wildlife tourism has a very important role to play in our rural areas, it can generate decent income for local people. If managed properly by informed individuals or organisations it can be of great educational importance. If not managed properly it can be disastrous for the species we are trying to conserve.
I am fortunate to be working in SWC conservation with a couple of estates on the west coast, an area which has been touted by organisations based 400 miles south as being the place to see SWCs.... Big mistake, Wildlife tourists are regularly arming themselves with lamps and going out trying to lamp and photograph the elusive SWC. I have seen this first hand on several occasions. Ive also seen the look on the face of the lampers when confronted by gamekeepers who do not know if they are dealing with poachers or tourists !
Once it is explained to these tourists that they are doing nothing more than making the wildcats even more elusive and doing SOD all to help in their conservation, they seem content to retire for the night.

The SWC is one of the most critically endangered species on the planet. Why would it ever be considered to re introduce the lynx when we have a far greater and more important task to resolve with the SWC.
 
Where were the 5 estates? In Scotland? That's a lot of cats. I can't understand why they waste funding money on neutering feral cats surely they are competing for food by releasing them again. Fair enough having a scheme to neuter people's pets but feral cats? We used to keep cats and there were several times when we reckoned a wild cat had bred with them as the kittens looked like typical wildcats. If reintroducing lynx would see a great up surge in tourism of people desperate to see a shy secretive creature with little chance of an actual sighting then why isn't there already this situation with our own indigenous scottish wildcat, the circumstances are exactly the same. Just another case of Half arsed conservation and giving a species 15 mins of fame to fill their pockets.

I was sat in a meeting of the great and good of Scottish Wildcat Conservation last year when the management of trapped suspected Wildcats which turned out to be ferals was discussed. Out of 35 people there was an overwhelming majority that wanted the ferals destroyed. The reasoning behind this was, as you suggest, That there was no point neutering them to then put them back into potential wildcat territories for there to be increased competition over food.

My belief is that many of the larger organisations are bloody terrified of upsetting a very very vocal minority.

Why would a gamekeeper go to the trouble of passing a suspected SWC onto the authorities to have it tested for genetic purity, to then, if it failed have a neutered feral given back to him for release ???? It goes without saying that a feral is not a protected species but a SWC is. In conservation terms the area of hybridised SWCs is becoming blurred as to their status.

Wildlife tourism has a very important role to play in our rural areas, it can generate decent income for local people. If managed properly by informed individuals or organisations it can be of great educational importance. If not managed properly it can be disastrous for the species we are trying to conserve.
I am fortunate to be working in SWC conservation with a couple of estates on the west coast, an area which has been touted by organisations based 400 miles south as being the place to see SWCs.... Big mistake, Wildlife tourists are regularly arming themselves with lamps and going out trying to lamp and photograph the elusive SWC. I have seen this first hand on several occasions. Ive also seen the look on the face of the lampers when confronted by gamekeepers who do not know if they are dealing with poachers or tourists !
Once it is explained to these tourists that they are doing nothing more than making the wildcats even more elusive and doing SOD all to help in their conservation, they seem content to retire for the night.

The SWC is one of the most critically endangered species on the planet. Why would it ever be considered to re introduce the lynx when we have a far greater and more important task to resolve with the SWC.
[/QUOTE]
Because someone somewhere will make a lot of £££ out of it, and that's all they care about.
 
Because someone somewhere will make a lot of £££ out of it, and that's all they care about.[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure that money is the driving force behind the Lynx reintroduction.
 
I'm tempted to say that the Lynx re-introduction is all about securing funding for academics. It is an idea looking for a purpose. Unfortunately the bunny cuddlers have latched on to it and it gives them another vent for their ecological spleens. Some of the comments about farmers, farming, the NFU and other owners of the countryside are so mis-informed and just down right hypocritical. The number one thing they all forget about re-introduction is that no matter how many home composting urban animal charity members out there want wolves/beavers/velociraptors re-introduced, the land they want it to affect just doesn't belong to them and the livelihoods ruined aren't theirs. So quite frankly they ought to be told to foxtrot oscar.

The really silly thing is that the species of Lynx that they want to introduce is not, and can not ever be, the original UK species. It is extinct. So to bring in a new species is a bit like releasing pigeons in Madagascar and calling them Dodo's!!

I have managed to hold back a rant about George Monbiot................
 
I'm tempted to say that the Lynx re-introduction is all about securing funding for academics. It is an idea looking for a purpose. Unfortunately the bunny cuddlers have latched on to it and it gives them another vent for their ecological spleens. Some of the comments about farmers, farming, the NFU and other owners of the countryside are so mis-informed and just down right hypocritical. The number one thing they all forget about re-introduction is that no matter how many home composting urban animal charity members out there want wolves/beavers/velociraptors re-introduced, the land they want it to affect just doesn't belong to them and the livelihoods ruined aren't theirs. So quite frankly they ought to be told to foxtrot oscar.

The really silly thing is that the species of Lynx that they want to introduce is not, and can not ever be, the original UK species. It is extinct. So to bring in a new species is a bit like releasing pigeons in Madagascar and calling them Dodo's!!

I have managed to hold back a rant about George Monbiot................

Unfortunately there are some significant landowners both north and south who are more than willing to be part of the Lynx experiment.
I could not agree with you more about academics trying to secure funding. I will no longer work with academics who will not declare who their backers are.
 
Where were the 5 estates? In Scotland? That's a lot of cats. I can't understand why they waste funding money on neutering feral cats surely they are competing for food by releasing them again. Fair enough having a scheme to neuter people's pets but feral cats? We used to keep cats and there were several times when we reckoned a wild cat had bred with them as the kittens looked like typical wildcats. If reintroducing lynx would see a great up surge in tourism of people desperate to see a shy secretive creature with little chance of an actual sighting then why isn't there already this situation with our own indigenous scottish wildcat, the circumstances are exactly the same. Just another case of Half arsed conservation and giving a species 15 mins of fame to fill their pockets.



I was sat in a meeting of the great and good of Scottish Wildcat Conservation last year when the management of trapped suspected Wildcats which turned out to be ferals was discussed. Out of 35 people there was an overwhelming majority that wanted the ferals destroyed. The reasoning behind this was, as you suggest, That there was no point neutering them to then put them back into potential wildcat territories for there to be increased competition over food.

My belief is that many of the larger organisations are bloody terrified of upsetting a very very vocal minority.

Why would a gamekeeper go to the trouble of passing a suspected SWC onto the authorities to have it tested for genetic purity, to then, if it failed have a neutered feral given back to him for release ???? It goes without saying that a feral is not a protected species but a SWC is. In conservation terms the area of hybridised SWCs is becoming blurred as to their status.

Wildlife tourism has a very important role to play in our rural areas, it can generate decent income for local people. If managed properly by informed individuals or organisations it can be of great educational importance. If not managed properly it can be disastrous for the species we are trying to conserve.
I am fortunate to be working in SWC conservation with a couple of estates on the west coast, an area which has been touted by organisations based 400 miles south as being the place to see SWCs.... Big mistake, Wildlife tourists are regularly arming themselves with lamps and going out trying to lamp and photograph the elusive SWC. I have seen this first hand on several occasions. Ive also seen the look on the face of the lampers when confronted by gamekeepers who do not know if they are dealing with poachers or tourists !
Once it is explained to these tourists that they are doing nothing more than making the wildcats even more elusive and doing SOD all to help in their conservation, they seem content to retire for the night.

The SWC is one of the most critically endangered species on the planet. Why would it ever be considered to re introduce the lynx when we have a far greater and more important task to resolve with the SWC.[/QUOTE]


A very good post NFWM.
Tweed breeks i have no idea where the estates were, but that was the figures he put on on the screen. Also was a lot of cats trapped and nuetured as part of the same study.

Must admit 1 of the most intresting wildlife talks i've ever been too. The boy was good craic and was joking about shooting cats, quite unusual in a roomful of bunny huggers (commitee only just agreed to control crows on reserve after 10 years of my badgering them)


To be fair i'm on the shooting the feral cats but he did make a good valid point it is better to have vaccinated nuetured ferals in wild cat areas, as same as foxes/any wildlife u shoot 1, 1 will move in to fill the void, so in theory leaving a cat disease free and nuetured could be a better option?
But he admitted there is no real right answer.
At moment doing TNR (trap nueter, release) and the Cat protetion are part of the group, but think they have stated no cats have to be harmed.

Lot of politics involved. Just starting a new programme/scheme and have 1 million in the kitty for it and a lot of different organisations invloved

I'm sure ur in a better position than me to explain this NFWM, but starting/enlarging a sort of captive breeding type programme, but the zoological society will test caught wildcats for genetic purity, they've not decided wot purity will be the cut off for breeding, but any hybrids close to but under the % might be PTS.
Quite complicated and contraversial to explain on here but basically trying to decide wot % of WC is worth saving and should the lower % be released or not? But considering there is ferals would a lower % WC be better.
But when u think about it even scottish red deer on the mainland are no longer considered genetically pure due to Sika inbreeding, so would a 50% Wc still be worth saving??


Thats the thing about all this eco tourism stuff, its all great in theory but the simple fact is most wildlife does not want to tolerate humans and will either move away or become so tame u'd hardly recognise there behaviour.
I remember years ago going on a field trip wi uni to some eco tourism place in highlands, i used to walk a few miles down to the the pub every nite for a decent steak (bloody vege food) and a good few bevvies. By end of week knew all the locals and they told me about all the wildlife locally that they wouldnae dare tell that muppet (eco owner) as he would have them scared off in no time

Like u say probably more Snow leopards than there are WC yet u never see an advert wanting u to adopt 1, bloody crazy and they want to waste all that money on a predator that fills almost the exact same niche and will predate on them. Bloody crazy
 
Each adult North American cougar kills about 2 deer a week.

It is a safe assumption that a lynx would kill a similar number of roe deer a week, and rabbits, and foxes who compete with them for rabbits.
 
Back
Top