New dog questions

howa243

Well-Known Member
I have had Black labs for 40 odd years and never thought I would stray from the breed. My current dog is getting a little long in the tooth now and a new companion might be good for him and help the process of 'handing over'.

Having seen and read a little about GWP's, I am thinking about straying from Lab's for the first time. I own a small farm and would like the dog to be a companion rather than a specialist in an particular area. I would need them to be steady and not wander far from my side. I have a small deer park and would like to take the dog into the deer population without it chasing the deer. If it doesn't they will get used to him. He needs to be steady around guns and be capable of retrieving without that being his main function. However the main role will be as guard dog. During the day my dogs are housed in a pen close to the house where they can see any approach to the house. I need them to bark at newcomers but not jump out and eat them. I would also like any thoughts on the sex of the animal. I have always preferred dogs to bitches as I believe them to be a bit more 'bloody minded'. Are there character differences between the sex's of GWP's? Training is another issue. I may just not have the time or ability to train a dog to the level that I require. Labs seem to come part trained, but I hear that GWP's can be difficult and would require considerably more time to train than a lab. Is this true?

Any other observations on the breed would be appreciated.
 
Seen quite a few GWPs over the years. With the exception of one, they all had behavioural issues. I wouldn't have one if you paid me. With regard labs; if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you're concerned labs aren't aggressive enough to intimidate potential intruders have a look around. I've known a few that I wouldn't go near unless the owner were present, so they're not all soft as butter.

Just my personal opinions and experience. I'm sure plenty with more knowledge of the breed will chip in.

Wolfie
 
i have had my gwp bitch for 7 years shes been on many stalks with me and done really well she allso is a good gaurd dog as soon as someone comes past the bottom of my garden she barks she is brilliant with my grandaughters never shown aggression towards them or anyone else i wouldnt be without her
 
I'd 2nd lupus's post.

GWP's can vary widely in their temperment eveen in litter brothers/sisters.
While some wires are realatively laid back some/most can be a real handful to train :banghead:, my wire is the most gifted, intelligent and driven dog i've ever had but he is the most infurating dog i've ever tried to train. When u make a mistake with training far harder to fix further down the line. Unlike with a lab where it wants to please u, show it something once and it will do it again the wire (well mine anyway) will push and push u till breaking point then do it. *******

Everything in ur post screams lab to me, and as said if aint broke don't fix it.
U could alter ur training more to make it more barking, security type training fairly easily.
 
I'd 2nd lupus's post.

GWP's can vary widely in their temperment eveen in litter brothers/sisters.
While some wires are realatively laid back some/most can be a real handful to train :banghead:, my wire is the most gifted, intelligent and driven dog i've ever had but he is the most infurating dog i've ever tried to train. When u make a mistake with training far harder to fix further down the line. Unlike with a lab where it wants to please u, show it something once and it will do it again the wire (well mine anyway) will push and push u till breaking point then do it. *******

Everything in ur post screams lab to me, and as said if aint broke don't fix it.
U could alter ur training more to make it more barking, security type training fairly easily.

Thanks for this. I don't want or need a guard dog as such, just an animal that will let me know when someone is about that he doesn't know. My current dog is brilliant at it. He lets out a few barks and then spots its someone he has seen before and shuts up. Its just enough to alert me to someone's presence without it being an irritation. To be honest I am coming to the conclusion that I would buy one trained, although I am concerned that this may get in the way of the bond between dog and owner.
 
Seen quite a few GWPs over the years. With the exception of one, they all had behavioural issues. I wouldn't have one if you paid me. With regard labs; if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you're concerned labs aren't aggressive enough to intimidate potential intruders have a look around. I've known a few that I wouldn't go near unless the owner were present, so they're not all soft as butter.

Just my personal opinions and experience. I'm sure plenty with more knowledge of the breed will chip in.

Wolfie
couldn't agree more. I've worked with popular breeds i.e. cockers,springers and labs for the last 15 years, i would say stick with what you know
 
I don't want to put u off totally seen some very good wires but they are a lot harder work, even just simple things like heeling can be hard work at times. They are a very different dog to labs

If ur happy with ur current dog might be worth getting a pup/young dog in while he is still going about. Often working strain labs are fairly quiet so the young 1 might quickly learn of the old 1 when to bark.
Doesnae sound like ur wanting dog to do that much, and most labs would do that with very little training.
U can often pick up failed FT dogs at reasonable money, but many would be trained to a lot higher standard than u need, but sometimes they will be those skinny ugly 'labs'

When u buy a trained dog the problems generally is not the lack of a bond, but new owners havnae a clue and think dog is now trained for life and they don't have to do anything with it.
 
I don't want to put u off totally seen some very good wires but they are a lot harder work, even just simple things like heeling can be hard work at times. They are a very different dog to labs

If ur happy with ur current dog might be worth getting a pup/young dog in while he is still going about. Often working strain labs are fairly quiet so the young 1 might quickly learn of the old 1 when to bark.
Doesnae sound like ur wanting dog to do that much, and most labs would do that with very little training.
U can often pick up failed FT dogs at reasonable money, but many would be trained to a lot higher standard than u need, but sometimes they will be those skinny ugly 'labs'

When u buy a trained dog the problems generally is not the lack of a bond, but new owners havnae a clue and think dog is now trained for life and they don't have to do anything with it.

Have started reading a bit about them and they do seem to have a lot of positive attributes. Very happy to hear about the negative ones. Have had a few dogs trained for me in years past and am aware that the training of both dog and owner need to continue after the hand over.In truth I have been hankering after a change for years. Bearing in mind some of the other breeds I have thought of I did think that the GWP was almost sensible. Will probably stay with a lab though.
 
A good, well trained GWP, is a fantastic animal capable of just about anything. Unfortunately a good, well trained GWP, is as rare as hens teeth. I have been out with "well trained" gwps before, owner saying the dog is fantastic at this and that, and have been staggered how poor some people.think is "good". Even some of the open class gwps, in field trials, are so poorly trained as to be well below a novice spaniel/Labrador.
 
A good, well trained GWP, is a fantastic animal capable of just about anything. Unfortunately a good, well trained GWP, is as rare as hens teeth. I have been out with "well trained" gwps before, owner saying the dog is fantastic at this and that, and have been staggered how poor some people.think is "good". Even some of the open class gwps, in field trials, are so poorly trained as to be well below a novice spaniel/Labrador.

Spoken like a true Spaniel man. Not many open stake HPR trials actually involve deer tracking.
 
Spoken like a true Spaniel man. Not many open stake HPR trials actually involve deer tracking.
It's a good job they don't include tracking deer, most of the dogs would be rubbish at that too !!!!!!. Most hpr people I have met live in a dream world of the perfect hpr gundog. A thing that hardly ever existed, especially in the UK.
 
It's a good job they don't include tracking deer, most of the dogs would be rubbish at that too !!!!!!. Most hpr people I have met live in a dream world of the perfect hpr gundog. A thing that hardly ever existed, especially in the UK.

Spoken like a true Spaniel man.

It is truly amazing that you can form an opinion on the certain outcome of a piece of work, without seeing the dog, the handler or the quarry. Your genius knows no bounds, other than you favour spaniels.
 
Last edited:
Must admit i totally agree with SS's, Greymaster, some of the HPR's i've seen are truely terrible and that is in FT's.
I'd be embarrassed to take some of those dogs out never mind enter a FT with them.
In the trials i have watched the top 3-5 dogs are absolutely outstanding sometimes a few quite good dogs but sometimes the rest are very poor.
Been at a few training classes/wknds too and the standard is often poor and sometimes the training can be poor too, well compared to the similar training i've done with normal gundog trainers
I've trained with a few hpr trainers too, while some are very good a lot of the amatuer trainers that run classes are very poor

Even the couple of FTCH's, FTW's i know and shot over, while absolutely excellent on the hill doing hpr stuff, when it comes to general gundog work are just the standard of ur aveage decent lab, but not really trained for that for all they get used for it

Just to add not just hpr owners that often tink the sun shines out of there dog's arse a lot of gundog/dog owners think that. If u dom't aknowledge ur dogs fualts ur never improve it.
Mine are not perfect by any strech pf imagination but they're not to bad either and i know each 1's fualts etc
 
Last edited:
Just to throw a spanner in the works, ever thought a clumber???

Mine was very protective went out in the yard, and would bark only ever when something wasn't right, and even at me when i stumbled through the back gate a few times until she realised it was me.

There are some excellent working clumbers out there currently, a few in yrkshire and a lot down south too. If it is not to be a pet though and is going to be stuck in a pet all day or only out when you are around and never in the house, I would steer clear of a clumber as they do need attention as they are very much family dogs, and need to be around people or another dog.

I will when the time is right, without a shadow of doubt, be having another one!!
 
Given your requirements I'm not sure a GWP is suitable for your needs. .They can be difficult to train, not particularly steady and keen as mustard to chase anything that runs. .
I have two, and although they are related (Mother and Son) they are totally different dogs, both in personality and looks. . The bitch being heavy set and short haired, and her boy being much hairier and carrying a much more athletic build. . In terms of work, the dog is much more eager to please, but typically pointer wants to range way out in front air scenting . .The bitch works much closer, is keen to point and plods along at her own speed, I always get the feeling she hunts for herself though, and I'm a bit of an after thought.. saying that when it comes to tracking and bringing to bay a wounded roe that trait is a positive one, and unlike the dog she can be trusted to be let off the lead and get the job done. Neither are strong retrievers.

In terms of guard dog duties you could do a lot worse, both of mine are like coiled springs and quick to let us know if anyone is around. Given the right circumstances both could be sharp.

They can be terribly infuriating at times but ultimately a very rewarding breed if you have the time patience and work for them. . not an easy ride though by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Last edited:
The poor wireys are getting a hard time.
I have not owned that many gun dogs but to date my current wire haired pointer is the easiest of the dogs yet. She was the most timid of the litter and took a long time to come out of her shell but is starting to come on good now at 16 months. She will walk perfectly at heel all day when stalking and is hunting and retrieving well on the pheasants so far this season. Training has been a bit trying at times but I am no expert trainer either. I am very happy with my GWP and I also heard all the horror stories before I committed to getting her. As has been said before dogs within the breed can be very different.
I must add that she is a very affectionate dog who does need attention and can sulk like a baby when she is put in her place which is needed from time to time.
 
I wish I had my last lab again so biddable and capable.

Current GSP 'wired to the moon' and has had more training than all my other dogs put together yet still requires plenty to reach the standard my lab was or I would be happy at.

Each has there strong points but I would have a lab again
 
Think thats the problem with Labs there just so 'boring' , and do almost everything u want with no fuss or drama.
So u go to the 'dark side' :doh:for a bit of excitemnet and get a more exotic dog and spend the rest of its life wishing for an old boring lab again

My young lab was a revaltion to train after that wire, i forgot how easy it was to train a dog, show it once and it actually does it without any shouting screaming or pulling hair out :banghead:

But i will have another wire, must be a glutton for it
 
Back
Top