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Thread: The John Muir Trust

  1. #1

    The John Muir Trust

    Scottish Gamekeepers Association News: CALL FOR GOVERNMENT PROBE AFTER STAGS LEFT TO ROT

    Just wondered if any members could help me out with a few questions of the above link.

    Why is venison left on the hill and not sold?
    I understand a carcass is left if diseased,and sometimes to feed the wildlife,is that what has happened here?

    It seems only Stags were left on the hill,were the hinds collected or were they not culled?

    This leads to another question, isn't it hinds that are culled in a management plan?
    Do you think there was a plan or was the purpose just to kill everything.

    I'm sorry if these seem stupid question but it's all new to me and I value peoples opinions on here.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    I am sure those more local can give you the full story, but according to their Deer Management Policy (Deer Management Policy) the JMT leave carcasses on the hill to minimise damage due to extraction and for the benefit of other wildlife.

    Their reasoning behind shooting so many stags this year is that SNH have stopped issuing them with close season licences, and they have instead been told to maximise the cull during the legal season (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...d-left-to-rot/).

    This looks suspiciously like a bit of "showmanship" on the part of the JMT in order to try to get SNH to back down in the future.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  3. #3
    A garron/pony causes sooo much damage...

  4. #4
    This all looks very fishy - obviously more to this than meets the eye.

    SNH no longer issues out of season authorisations for any male deer - because it issues a General Authorisation every year permitting the taking of male deer for stated purposes (amongst them "protecting the natural heritage") - as far as I recall this also covers unenclosed land. So why does JMT need an authorisation?

    Leaving shot deer carcases on the hill was I think pioneered by Paul van Vlissingen at Letterewe and this research was covered in "A Highland Deer Herd and its Habitat" published in 2002 - it does appear to have a lot of ecological benefits other than just the damage caused by extraction.

    A cull of 86 stags on an estate the size of Knoydart does not appear excessive - but again we are not in possession of all the facts - the 7000 population figure stated in the P&J article appears inflated - but again we have only some of the facts so how can we judge?

  5. #5
    Very simple - on many parts of the knoydart and on Blaven on Skye it is simply not physically nor economically faces able to recover the whole carcass. In many places your stalk starts with a walk up and over a 3000 ft mountain and your recovery is dragging it back over said mountain. So the best bits are taken out in a back pack and the rest is left for the sea and golden eagles. They use non toxic ammo so that there is little risk of poisoning.

    It it not only benefits Eagles - many smaller birds and mammals also benefit.

    They have been doing this for years. On Blaven they have taken dear numbers down quite considerably, which has resulted in much better stag weights.

    Saying all all of the above they do try and recover as much as possible and send to the dealer, but dealers only take whole carcasses.
    Last edited by Heym SR20; 23-12-2015 at 20:15.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JabaliHunter View Post
    A garron/pony causes sooo much damage...

  7. #7
    Not making any excuses for JMT but I assume their reasons for leaving the carcasses would include extremely difficult and remote terrain and "natural recycling" of the carcasses - after all they do leave sheep and other carcasses to feed eagles etc (thats a whole different discussion).

    From what I have heard JMT have at least been stripping the best of the meat from the carcasses before leaving the rest of the remains

  8. #8
    Think this could e a bit political, been brewing for a few years between the local DMG and JMT, think JMT are at moment trying to force a judical review? and are hoping scottish government will get involved setting culls that have to be met.

    The local DMG are moaning about a lack of deer/mature stags and revinue/employment for the local estates while the JMT is only concerned with trying to decimate the numbers to get this wild woodland regen with no ugly/expensive fences.
    The SGA been writing about it for a while now.

    It's a strange 1, if that was a stalking estate leaving deer lying it would be on the front page of every tabloid in scotland calling us murders etc but as its a charity its all ok. Totally bonkers

  9. #9
    Thanks willie_gunn for the links,
    After reading the second link and the comments by Lester Standen from The John Muir Trust,I seem to think the same as you,
    That they are showing SNH whose boss in a most churlish way.
    Unable to cull deer in their season correctly using best practices so alter their Deer Management Policy.
    If they can remove the head and haunches of some then its BS.
    No respect for the animals by the gunmen and that just shouldn't happen.
    Must be hell in Scotland with these folks about.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Budgie Smuggler View Post
    Thanks willie_gunn for the links,
    After reading the second link and the comments by Lester Standen from The John Muir Trust,I seem to think the same as you,
    That they are showing SNH whose boss in a most churlish way.
    Unable to cull deer in their season correctly using best practices so alter their Deer Management Policy.
    If they can remove the head and haunches of some then its BS.
    No respect for the animals by the gunmen and that just shouldn't happen.
    Must be hell in Scotland with these folks about.
    Unfortunately politics and personal agendas has increased these kind of incidents which look likely to continue for some time.

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