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Thread: Legal to transfer firearm whilst FAC is away for variation?

  1. #1

    Legal to transfer firearm whilst FAC is away for variation?

    As per the title, I have a rifle that I need to transfer/sell to another FAC holder (who has authority to acquire rifle of this calibre), however my FAC is away for a variation and may take some time. Have emailed my licensing dept to ask this same question a couple of weeks ago but received no reply.

    Is it a legal requirement to actually show your FAC when selling a firearm? (I have a photocopy of it at the moment).

    Cheers!

  2. #2
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    It is not a legal requirement for an RFD to enter anything on the seller's "authority to possess" when acquiring a firearm from that person so it is not necessary to in fact "see" it.

    Therefore they would be able to purchase it from you and would then ask for your name and address...which you would give; then they would ask for your authority to possess....which you would give as your extant FAC details as that still remains current even though it is with your force's licensing department.

    By extension this also would apply to an FAC holder purchasing a firearm from you.

    Lastly, like many others here, I have rarely actually seen an RFD's actual paper"Certificate of Registration" when I have purchased a gun or ammunition from one in over forty years of shooting.

    You would notify the transaction in the normal way. But, of course, you could buy neither firearm nor ammunition in the converse circumstance as the law requires "that details of the transaction be entered" on the actual FAC and nothibg else will suffice.

    LAST: EMAIL HAS ITS PLACE BUT A RECORDED DELIVERY LETTER OF WHAT YOU INTEND TO DO (AND A COPY OF THAT WITH THE RECORDED DELIVERY SLIP) IS IRREFUTABLE.
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 29-12-2015 at 00:52.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chris101 View Post
    As per the title, I have a rifle that I need to transfer/sell to another FAC holder (who has authority to acquire rifle of this calibre), however my FAC is away for a variation and may take some time. Have emailed my licensing dept to ask this same question a couple of weeks ago but received no reply.

    Is it a legal requirement to actually show your FAC when selling a firearm? (I have a photocopy of it at the moment).


    Cheers!
    I would say that this probably wouldn't be a problem but who would buy a gun from you without actually seeing your certificate in the first place and establishing that you have lawful authority to possess.


    I would email your firearms department again marking the message as important, or at least phone them for an answer and then ask them to confirm the telephone conversation by email.
    Last edited by 8x57; 29-12-2015 at 07:37.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  4. #4
    The person buying the rifle is one of my trusted club officials who knows the full details of my FAC and my authority to possess, otherwise I wouldn't even entertain the idea. Will try the licensing dept again by phone, however I suspect that they are closed until January. Thanks for the replies - its confirmed my thoughts, although until I get written or verbal approval from the FLM/FLO I wont take the risk.

  5. #5
    Chris, you have a PM

  6. #6
    your first issue was giving them the FAC
    they do not need it, but for some reason we (the people) still persist in giving them an original copy whilst renewal is being processed

    however you should have no issue transferring it as all they would need is your details (which you have and apparently they already know)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    your first issue was giving them the FAC
    they do not need it, but for some reason we (the people) still persist in giving them an original copy whilst renewal is being processed
    The OP said it was sent off for a variation - where you DO have to return the FAC.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    The OP said it was sent off for a variation - where you DO have to return the FAC.
    Nope
    in 30 years of FAC possession I never have and never will

    Once the variation is completed THEN and only THEN will I either appear in person to swap over the new one or send it by RMSD for replacement by return

    expecting an FAC holder to be without a hard copy original of the very thing they rely on for ammunition purchase or rental of range time is unacceptable and totally unnecessary.

    They simply do not need the original.
    Any info they already have by way of their own copy or the notifications of any additional purchases sent in by the holder.

    Whilst the advice given by the BASC and some other bodies indicates there is a difference between application/renewal and variation in practice it does not exist.

    In three regions (Northumberland, Cambridgshire and Police Scotland (L&B) I have never agreed to return the original.
    If photocopy is good enough for me it is good enough for them...except I need the original and they don't!




    "The law (The Firearms Amendment Rules 2014) does not require you to return the expiring certificates with your application. In the case of shotguns the rules state that renewal applications should be accompanied by the expiring certificate “if it is available”. The need to buy ammunition and to show lawful possession means that the expiring certificate is not available. If you need advice on this or any other issue, please call BASC’s firearms team on 01244 573010 with your membership number to hand."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    The OP said it was sent off for a variation - where you DO have to return the FAC.
    Not so Laurie, I've just had my one FAC back after a variation to put two extra spaces for .22 rifles on it and I held on to the FAC until the varied replacement was issued. I have done this on three occasions now.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by enfieldspares View Post

    LAST: EMAIL HAS ITS PLACE BUT A RECORDED DELIVERY LETTER OF WHAT YOU INTEND TO DO (AND A COPY OF THAT WITH THE RECORDED DELIVERY SLIP) IS IRREFUTABLE.
    Send the email with a "received receipt" and "read receipt" request - you have irrefutable proof that the message has been received and opened.

    Police Scotland send and automatic receipt so further proof of delivery, even if you don't click the "receive receipt" box when you send the email - further irrefutable proof of delivery.

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