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Thread: a very pure way of deer stalking

  1. #1

    a very pure way of deer stalking

    dont know if this has been shown before and i missed it but i just found this on youtube and it certainly made me think about the way in which i stalk

  2. #2
    What a wonderful short film. That is how I learned to hunt, and is still my favorite, with rifle, handgun or bow.

    This film is tasteful and a good representation of our sport. Hats off to the hunter, the film maker, and to Mauser.

  3. #3
    It's a good little film for sure, but surely tainted with the use of binoculars?
    Nice if you are a recreational stalker who has the luxury of countless visits to achieve a cull.
    I personally find it distasteful (from a poor deer management perspective) to call in and shoot the best bucks during the Rut when there are clearly better cull animals about! Their guard is down and you could probably whack one with a shovel with a little more effort and time spent! Trophy hunting is not conducive to good deer management!
    Feeling a bit poorly tonight so excuse any minor rants!
    MS

  4. #4
    First of all, this film is about the challenge of hunting by stalking close to wary game. We don't know anything about his reasoning for choosing to take this older, mature buck. It seems to me to have nothing to do with a "trophy". This hunter is trying to improve his stalking skills and style in preparation for an African plains hunt.

    Not all hunting is culling for herd management.

    Also, a lot of herd management for quality has the philosophy of only taking mature, trophy bucks, along with the old, the sick and lame, and older barren does. Young deer are never "culled", because under this strategy, they will have an ever-improving genetics and produce healthier herds with more "trophy" antlers.

    In most countries, there are more hunters than in the UK, and shorter seasons, and small bag limits - perhaps on only one buck with at least 6 points, for example. The season might only be ten days. Many hunters will go for years without getting a shot, in a state like Pennsylvania, Maryland, or New England states. So when they do get to hunt, they may take off work and hunt every day for an entire week. In other states, like parts of Alabama, South Carolina, and Mississippi, the season may run from mid-August to December 31, with limits like 5 bucks, or 2 bucks plus 4 doe tags for every buck you take, or even one deer per day if they are over-populated. If you travel from a big city to the West or Midwest, you are not going to pass on a trophy whitetail or mule deer and take some puny forkhorn.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern View Post
    First of all, this film is about the challenge of hunting by stalking close to wary game. We don't know anything about his reasoning for choosing to take this older, mature buck. It seems to me to have nothing to do with a "trophy". This hunter is trying to improve his stalking skills and style in preparation for an African plains hunt.

    Not all hunting is culling for herd management.

    Also, a lot of herd management for quality has the philosophy of only taking mature, trophy bucks, along with the old, the sick and lame, and older barren does. Young deer are never "culled", because under this strategy, they will have an ever-improving genetics and produce healthier herds with more "trophy" antlers.

    In most countries, there are more hunters than in the UK, and shorter seasons, and small bag limits - perhaps on only one buck with at least 6 points, for example. The season might only be ten days. Many hunters will go for years without getting a shot, in a state like Pennsylvania, Maryland, or New England states. So when they do get to hunt, they may take off work and hunt every day for an entire week. In other states, like parts of Alabama, South Carolina, and Mississippi, the season may run from mid-August to December 31, with limits like 5 bucks, or 2 bucks plus 4 doe tags for every buck you take, or even one deer per day if they are over-populated. If you travel from a big city to the West or Midwest, you are not going to pass on a trophy whitetail or mule deer and take some puny forkhorn.
    I suggest you look again at about 4:04 minutes he says something like the buck not being mature so he knows that he will not shoot it. He is clearly after mature bucks only and passed the chance to cull an ideal cull buck.
    In the UK we do not have any natural predators any more, so it is essential that we try to replicate what nature would have intended with natural selection and the 'survival of the fittest'. A natural cull by predators would include mostly young animals, some old, sick or lame animals, and just a handful of mature animals such as bucks that are exhausted or injured during the rut and AFTER the rut! This is pretty much the opposite to the philosophy you suggest? This style of hunting does not show respect for the deer at all - it is merely gratification for the hunter. Shorter seasons or bag limits shouldn't affect the quality of the deer you shoot as they are there to protect the welfare of the deer. The amount of time you get off work or the distance you have travelled should not influence your choice of animal to cull!
    Good deer management should focus on the needs of the deer and NOT the needs of the stalker!
    Shooting mature bucks during the rut when they are vulnerable and otherwise pre-occupied is not only 'unsporting', it goes completely against what nature would have intended.
    MS

  6. #6
    'Nice little film', and that is as far as it goes! It 'smacks' of elitism, 'look at me, how good am I' ? The hunter enthuses over the ethics and ethos of his 'traditional' 'back-to-nature' method of hunting, lamenting how binoculars have taken away the animals natural advantage over us as hunters. Yet, at the same time he is happily sporting a fine pair of his own! Why he needs them at those ranges defeats me! Additionally, using a 'substantial' magnum calibre could also be argued he is furthering his advantage. With his muddled and confused view of doing things 'more naturally' he ought to be chasing them about the woods with a spear and an axe!
    I agree entirely with MS, trophy hunting has no place in deer management.

    'Camodog'.

  7. #7
    What I am saying is that deer biologists and landowners with tracts large enough to maintain several fo the same herds of deer have an entirely different philosophy of "culling" than what is believed and practiced in the UK. Those in Germany apparently have a different one, too.

    Having hunted predators for over 50 years, I don't ascribe to the theory that they only take the weak and old animals. They take targets of opportunity, which often include majestic but solidary bulls and bucks, or fawns and calves which had the genetic potential to be great examples of the species.

    I enjoy getting different perspectives on game management and different hunting styles, which is why I come to this SDUK site. I also enjoy seeing someone like this German hunting pretty much the same way as his ancestors did with a bow or spear, and he was able to get close enough to use those. But had he used a self-made bow and wood arrow with stone tip to take what the BASC thinks is an appropriate "cull buck", there would have been a great howl from some other corner.

  8. #8
    I have spent quite a bit of time hunting around Europe Ms and there idea of culling is vastly different to ours.
    they like to leave young animals and only shoot older beasts in hopes they get bigger or medal status, red stags get a second wind as they start going back they leave them to watch them get bigger before taking them.
    They have the same idea for roe we have them over here and they won't take a young animal as they feel left alone they will mature to become a medal head.
    put a foreigner in front of a malform and see how long it is standing for it won't be long lol

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mereside View Post
    I have spent quite a bit of time hunting around Europe Ms and there idea of culling is vastly different to ours.
    they like to leave young animals and only shoot older beasts in hopes they get bigger or medal status, red stags get a second wind as they start going back they leave them to watch them get bigger before taking them.
    They have the same idea for roe we have them over here and they won't take a young animal as they feel left alone they will mature to become a medal head.
    put a foreigner in front of a malform and see how long it is standing for it won't be long lol
    You are undoubtedly right, and is it any coincidence that their Roe heads are quite poor? If you keep shooting the best animals, the species can only de-generate!
    I'm sure that genetics plays a part, but the Europeans love to come to the UK to shoot our fine beasts. If their theory was good, then their own Roe would be a lot better than they are now? Ours will surely head the same way if they are mismanaged? They may have been doing it longer than us, but are they doing it right, and for the right reasons? Trophy hunting of medal status deer is not good for the species!
    MS

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey Spanker View Post
    You are undoubtedly right, and is it any coincidence that their Roe heads are quite poor? If you keep shooting the best animals, the species can only de-generate!
    I'm sure that genetics plays a part, but the Europeans love to come to the UK to shoot our fine beasts. If their theory was good, then their own Roe would be a lot better than they are now? Ours will surely head the same way if they are mismanaged? They may have been doing it longer than us, but are they doing it right, and for the right reasons? Trophy hunting of medal status deer is not good for the species!
    MS
    i have spent many nights saying the same MS what works for one species doesnt work for all many factors involved. Why does one area hold huge reds but not other species, a very interesting subject indeed

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