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Thread: NON FAC holder ownes shooting rights and wants to go stalking: Legality?

  1. #1

    NON FAC holder ownes shooting rights and wants to go stalking: Legality?

    I was asked this question recently and thought I knew the answer however I am now unsure having read the latests SACs news letter

    A man has inhereted shooting rights on a big block of land. The shooting rights where purchased many years ago. He does not hold a FAC. The land holds deer and he would like to try and shoot one. He has a friend who has a deer calbre rifle and open ticket and has asked his friend if he would come out stalking so he might try and shoot a deer.

    Now lets forget the issues re his compentcy to do so.

    What is the legal position is it covered by the estate rifle rule, but point is the man owes the rights (but not the land) does he have to give permission to the stalker so he can shoot on the land???

    What other legalities come into play.

    Thanks

    D

  2. #2
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Interesting situation!

    My take - presuming this is in England and not Scotland:

    1. The man owns the shooting rights. He would therefore be viewed as the "occupier" from a legal perspective.

    2. As the occupier he would need to give permission to the stalker to take deer on ground where the occupier holds the stalking rights. I would also suggest he gives permission for the stalker to be accompanied by guests, paying or otherwise.

    3. As a "servant of the occupier" the stalker can now utilise the estate rifle clause and allow guests that he accompanies to borrow a rifle that is held on the stalker's FAC.

    4. The occupier can now accompany the stalker, borrow the estate rifle, and shoot a deer.

    The BASC document on "Borrowing Rifles on Private Premises" would be useful to have at hand, which is what I used to come up with the above: http://basc.org.uk/?s=borrowing

    Given the somewhat hazy nature of the law in this area a clarification call to BASC might not go amiss either!
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 05-01-2016 at 11:55.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  3. #3
    Unless there is good reason for not being allowed an FAC, he surely has good reason to be issued with one. Has he been in prison?

  4. #4
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTO View Post
    Unless there is good reason for not being allowed an FAC, he surely has good reason to be issued with one. Has he been in prison?
    I don't think getting a FAC for the occupier is really the question Cyres is looking to get answered, elegant though it would be in solving this particular problem.

    The question has arisen as a result of the article "Borrowing Guns and Rifles" in the Winter 15/16 issue of the SACS magazine, where they discuss the legalities of doing so and the unclear nature of the law. In reading the article I actually felt the possible legal concern was more around lending shotguns to a non-certificate holder (particularly where the lender is a guest gun on a shoot) rather than a rifle, since the estate clause provision was specifically designed around the latter.

    Not to say that "Occupier" and "Servant" shouldn't be updated and clarified however!!
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    I don't think getting a FAC for the occupier is really the question Cyres is looking to get answered, elegant though it would be in solving this particular problem.
    I was wondering why the chap has not already got an FAC, time perhaps, but there may be another reason. We're not always put fully in the picture.

  6. #6
    The chap with the shooting rights may be a politician ! therefore not deemed safe to hold an FAC

  7. #7
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTO View Post
    I was wondering why the chap has not already got an FAC, time perhaps, but there may be another reason. We're not always put fully in the picture.
    Maybe Cyres will clarify, but I think the chap might even be theoretical and not actual.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  8. #8
    There was a thread on a forum somewhere some time ago, where a person banned from having any form of gun license, was running a pest control business and was sending chaps out to do the work with guns.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JTO View Post
    There was a thread on a forum somewhere some time ago, where a person banned from having any form of gun license, was running a pest control business and was sending chaps out to do the work with guns.
    I can't see an issue with that, the individual FAC holders would be accountable for their own actions.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    I can't see an issue with that,

    I don't suppose the police could either.

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