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Thread: I've got 222 and written permission for Muntjac...

  1. #1

    I've got 222 and written permission for Muntjac...

    So then guys,

    I've got a 222 and one of my permissions has said i can thin the muntjac out for him. I've not got any deer stalking experience.

    If i send written permission and my FAC to the local plod is that enough to get Muntjac added as a condition. I haven't taken the DSC1 and know it's not a legal requirement, nor is experience of shooting deer. (Why deer are given more thought than other animals like fox and rabbit i don't know!)

    What's the likely outcome? I'm pretty sure the plod will tell me to get experience from a regular stalker or do the DSC1, but what legal stance should i take?

    Yes i know taking the DSC1 is beneficial, and going out with someone else will teach me perfect shot placement, but both will likely cost me money.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Hi phillips,
    What exactly is your 222 conditioned for? if you have Any Other legal Quarry then you are legal to shoot muntjac.

    Ian.

  3. #3
    Philip, if you ask nicely, you may be able to get someone off here to accompany you a few times to show you the ropes. If only I lived closer! You're going about it the right way but I suspect that you already have it covered legally with AOLQ.

  4. #4
    They have no reason not to grant you aolq just explain what you want if you don't want a ds1 they can't make you, my first centerfire was a 243 on an open ticket with all quarry because that's what I needed just be confident

  5. #5
    To the OP:

    Read through the HO Guidance chapters 10 & 13 and you'll have your answer(s) - you'll also find the sections to quote if you hit any problems.

    Here's a starter for 10:

    10.38 There is no requirement to establish ‘good reason’ for additional conditions or the
    addition of quarry species to an existing condition where ‘good reason’ already exists
    for the possession of a firearm in the first instance (See chapter 13). Firearms should be
    conditioned to provide flexibility with quarry shooting by allowing all lawful quarry (see
    Appendix 3).

    13.9 A certificate holder may shoot any quarry that is lawful (where they are authorised to
    shoot). Whilst guidance is provided, it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting
    community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry
    is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing
    authority to permit the shooting of protected species). Once initial “good reason” has been
    established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be
    demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not
    underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of achieving a humane kill,
    and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess energy will be absorbed by the backstop.
    The “any other lawful quarry” condition (which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should
    be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to
    do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions imposed on the individual’s firearm certificate.

    That's the legal bit, but as you have no previous experience of shooting deer it would be a good idea to spend time in the field with someone with experience, or failing that out with your binos and behind the pages of some of the excellent books on the subject just learning about them.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    To the OP:

    Read through the HO Guidance chapters 10 & 13 and you'll have your answer(s) - you'll also find the sections to quote if you hit any problems.

    Here's a starter for 10:

    10.38 There is no requirement to establish ‘good reason’ for additional conditions or the
    addition of quarry species to an existing condition where ‘good reason’ already exists
    for the possession of a firearm in the first instance (See chapter 13). Firearms should be
    conditioned to provide flexibility with quarry shooting by allowing all lawful quarry (see

    Appendix 3).

    13.9 A certificate holder may shoot any quarry that is lawful (where they are authorised to
    shoot). Whilst guidance is provided, it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting
    community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry
    is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing
    authority to permit the shooting of protected species). Once initial “good reason” has been
    established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be
    demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not
    underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of achieving a humane kill,
    and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess energy will be absorbed by the backstop.
    The “any other lawful quarry” condition (which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should
    be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to
    do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions imposed on the individual’s firearm certificate.

    That's the legal bit, but as you have no previous experience of shooting deer it would be a good idea to spend time in the field with someone with experience, or failing that out with your binos and behind the pages of some of the excellent books on the subject just learning about them.

    you beat me to it!
    farcical that we even consider that the police hold authority to restrict ability to shoot deer

    THEY DO NOT

    the administer firearms licensing
    THAT IS IT

  7. #7
    Where abouts in Glos are you? Quite a few SD members in this area so I am sure one of us could help you out if you are looking for somebody to accompany you. Are you in A@S for Firearms or West Mercia?

    If you have AOLQ then all is fine. A@S do not allow mentoring and unless things have changed require a DSC 1 for deer calibre rifle or an approved course for centre fire. However i do think things may be changing.

    As for stalking Munties I find its hit and miss you see them when no rifle with you and they hang arround for ages, with rifle you don't see them and they never stay still when you do. Have shot more waiting out for foxs rather than trying to stalk them.

    Also buggers to skin however they taste very good.

    D

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyres View Post
    A@S do not allow mentoring and unless things have changed require a DSC 1 for deer calibre rifle or an approved course for centre fire. However i do think things may be changing.
    Retrospectively? It's a bit late as the OP already has his rifle.

  9. #9
    its legal with certain bullet weights/muzzle energy - dont accept a 'No', it has to be AOLQ. If they know, you know the detail - they have to go with it.

  10. #10
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    You really must try to get someone to come along with you to show you the ropes.
    Muntjac can be as tough as nails if you get it wrong.
    Plus have you thought about what you are going to do with the carcass after you have shot it.
    There is a lot of good eating to be had out of a deer carcass and it is very easy to get it wrong and turn it in to something worthless and potentially damaging to your health.
    Dependant on where you are I would be willing to help and have guided many first time clients.
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

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