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Thread: help me test recoil with Bavarian stock?

  1. #1

    help me test recoil with Bavarian stock?

    A big ask, but I'd be very grateful for any help with this:

    Does anyone in Edinburgh/Fife/Lothians/Borders etc have a .308/.270/.30-06 or similar with a Bavarian style stock? And who would be willing to let me fire a shot or two with it? Either at Morton or Braidwood?

    I would really like to objectively test the felt recoil side by side with a standard stock.

    I would of course cover all expenses - or perhaps offer a roe outing in return?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Can't help directly as you would need to test say the Heym SR21 with the classic and the Bavarian on a side by side basis in the same calibre. Basic principle is that the classic with a straight comb an little drop in the stock - i.e. the butt plate is in line, puts most of the recoil through the shoulder. Bavarian and / or the Montecarlo - which pretty much have the same shape as regards critical dimensions, has more drop at the heel of the stock - i.e. the butt plate is lower compare the axis of the bore, but the then comb rises to fill in the gap to the face. Net effect is that on firing the rifle tends to kick up rather than push straight back and thats why you feel more recoil. On some Monte carlo or bavarian stocks - like my Rigby, the comb slopes forward so that as the rifle kicks back the comb moves away from your face so less slap.

    The only real difference between Monte Carlo and Bavarian style Hogsbacked, whereas the Monte Carlo look as is if the cheek piece is wrapped over the stock. My 7x65R has a lot of drop and I have heavy loads which you are welcome to try. The other comparison was that 308 Mannlicher compare to your Heym SR21.

  3. #3
    I wondered about that Mannlicher - would you say that had a Bavarian-ish stock?

    In which case I wonder if the fact that it belted me like an angry hippo was to do with that?

  4. #4
    I'm sure you know Mungo that a straighter stock is meant to be comfortable for mainly shooting prone & will increase the felt recoil if used standing with the opposite applying to hogsback/bavarian type stocks. My rifle is set up to be a comfortable fit for sitting or standing as that's what 90% of my shooting involves.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    I'm sure you know Mungo that a straighter stock is meant to be comfortable for mainly shooting prone & will increase the felt recoil if used standing with the opposite applying to hogsback/bavarian type stocks. My rifle is set up to be a comfortable fit for sitting or standing as that's what 90% of my shooting involves.
    Yes. I was hoping to try two similar rifles with different stocks side by side in different positions to see what the differences felt like in the various positions.

    The Sako 75 stock that you and I have seems to work very well as a multipurpose stock - though I think I may get a small comb raiser.

  6. #6
    SD Regular Greener Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    I'm sure you know Mungo that a straighter stock is meant to be comfortable for mainly shooting prone & will increase the felt recoil if used standing with the opposite applying to hogsback/bavarian type stocks. My rifle is set up to be a comfortable fit for sitting or standing as that's what 90% of my shooting involves.
    Not argueing as I don't really know but dangerous game rifles have straight stocks and they are almost exclusively shot standing. In the big bore world very few people favour Bavarian or Monte Carlo stocks.
    Any Questions Feel Free to PM me

  7. #7
    think you need to be looking at BRNO/CZ owners as they appear to be most common hogsback stocked rifles around here
    its not the curved comb design that makes the difference its the drop to the comb

    the problem comes when you sit a scope on one
    they give good standing mounting but also an inherent muzzle flip which diverts a lot of recoil energy, a lot closer to shotgun or double rifle profile
    but do not mix well with the current fetish for 50-56mm high mounted scopes

    think also perceived recoil could be down to so many other factors in the fit of the rifle in Length of Pull, butt pad material/construction,, weight etc

    Click image for larger version. 

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    lot more DG calibre rifles have higher combs now due to scopes than historical ones that had more drop or the doubles that are framed like shotguns

    Last edited by bewsher500; 03-02-2016 at 12:45.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    lot more DG calibre rifles have higher combs now due to scopes than historical ones that had more drop or the doubles that are framed like shotguns
    Although it's by no means a DG rifle, my drilling has a stock that's made primarily to use with a scoped rifle. As a result of which I shoot over the top of things with the shotgun barrels. Still, there you, Jack of All Trades...

  9. #9
    Having had a 308 & now have a 30-06 Mannlicher Stutzen, I've developed the following technique to get the best group sizes. Technique is most important.
    If you have too soft a soft hold, the rifle will jump about & you will loose the sight picture on firing anything heavier than 130 grain bullets. The muzzle flip is more prominent with these fairly light weight rifles with their hogs back stocks.

    Assuming right handed operation, concentrate on pulling back & slightly downwards with the fingers of the right hand. Don't grasp it heavily with your thumb wringing its neck! That tends to introduce torque - you don't want that!
    With the left hand, take a firm finger / palm grip on the forestock fairly far back (on the checkering on my rifles) again pull it firmly back & tense the left arm to resist the flip when it occurs.
    Depending on the bullet weight & velocity you may maintain the sight picture. What is important is that the cross hairs leap straight up & return to your aiming point afterwards. This can be a good gauge whether you are doing it right or not.

    Mungo - If you can get up to the Highlands You could try mine (near Strathpeffer). I don't have a heavy calibre straight stock rifle to compare with tho' - only 243 & lighter in CF.

    Ian

  10. #10
    It is not just the drop at the heel of the stock which makes for a difference in felt recoil, but the pitch, the width and area of the butt, and the length of pull, as well as the barrel length and the weight and weight distribution of the rifle.

    Rifles with heavy recoil were / are often used on dangerous game from a standing position, offhand, with iron sights. The recoil is less punishing if you do not try to overcome it, but just roll with it, keeping the rifle in place on the shoulder as you come down for a second shot. If it is a bolt action, some prefer to practice cycling the bolt with the rifle right there in place, and watching the fresh round go into the chamber, without taking their eyes off the target. Your fore end hand is well forward on the wood, like a SxS shotgun with a leather sleeve, to control recoil and point the muzzle quickly at the target. The most important thing is that the rifle fit you, and that you consistently anchor the butt between your shoulder and chest for full support.

    When scope sights were first fitted to these great rifles, the short eye relief and movement under recoil resulted in losing sight of the target, not being able to see the action cycling, and worst of all, a scope cut at the worst moment.

    A lot of German hunters, using open sights, Bavarian or shotgun buttstocks, and removable scopes in claw mounts, would shoot with their heads erect, and a different anchor point for open sights and scope. This works very well, too.

    The prevalence of, and preferences for, scope sights, and the development of better recoil pads, has changed many rifles to very straight stocks. The recoil is more sharp and direct into the shoulder, but the recoil pad soaks it up. The problem is that the combs are too high and thick for quickly aligning the iron sights. My Model 70 Express .375 H&H was like this: very good at taming recoil, but required squirming to get on the excellent sights, and very natural with a 1.25-4x scope. My Sako L61R .375 has a Monte Carlo stock with more drop on the butt is very quick on the iron sights, and at 1.5 lbs lighter, more movement under recoil, but no more felt impact on the shoulder than the M70. The scope is set low, and you learn to find a different place on the cheekpiece when mounting it.

    Try a Steyr Mannlicher 96 Classic or a Sako 85 Bavarian, which have a very good fit for iron sights, yet a very good fit ( at a different place on the cheek piece) for a scope.

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