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Thread: Roe density per km2?

  1. #1

    Roe density per km2?

    Based on some sketchy, un-scientific dung plot counts and a few back-of-fag-packet calcs I figure a mean roe deer population density to be about 18-24 individuals per km2 in north of england sitka spruce blocks.
    To maintain population, are people still looking to cull about 20%, with a weighting to does over bucks?

    I was just looking over the South Wark FC cull contract and noticed that the cull target seemed higher than I would have expected for the acreage; are my figures way out? What population densities and cull targets per ha are you people working with?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Your figure seems really high to me, never mind South Wark.

  3. #3
    That is an extremely high figure!!

  4. #4
    Most commercial forestry look for about 5 deer per kmsq. And i think 5% damage over the 1st 5 years to get the grant money paid

    We had a reputable company come in and do a deer dung count there estimate/guestimate was +/- 30%, and that was not back of fag packet study, in fact about 30 odd pages of bumf.

  5. #5
    I think something has gone wrong with the estimation.

    Did you factor in local degradation rate? The most commom cause of over estimates in dung counts is to under estimate how long it takes for dung to degrade.

  6. #6
    Figure seems very high for the type of ground you mention and you need to cull a third to keep population stable , slightly more does than bucks to keep stable, if you need to decrease the number of resident deer increase the doe cull, the female population is the key to deer numbers.

  7. #7
    I've often heard mention of a cull target of 4 per 100Ha for upland forests.

    Also worth remembering healthy roe populations produce more twins, so a maintenance cull will be somewhat higher than 20%. A reduction cull, higher still.

    Kids are normally born with a 50/50 split for sex, so why the preference for does over bucks in a cull plan other than does being more important regards controlling population productivity? I've always found bucks easier to get than does, so if you shoot your bucks hard you'll often struggle to match that cull with does come winter let alone significantly exceed it.

    Wolfie

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Lupus;1078699]I've often heard mention of a cull target of 4 per 100Ha for upland forests.

    Also worth remembering healthy roe populations produce more twins, so a maintenance cull will be somewhat higher than 20%. A reduction cull, higher still.

    Kids are normally born with a 50/50 split for sex, so why the preference for does over bucks in a cull plan

    Upland forest does will often only produce one kid due to the poorer quality food available.

    While its true that roe are born 50/50 sex wise, does are stronger than bucks as in most species and the bucks suffer a higher natural mortality during their first year, by the end of that first year its quite normal for the ratio of these youngsters to be 1.5 does or higher to every buck, hence why doe cull should be higher , as the majority of any cull should be yearlings
    Last edited by bogtrotter; 13-02-2016 at 10:04.

  9. #9
    sounds high to me, but all ground is different, in large populations mortality can be very high if winter feed is poor,also if you leave younger non territorial does this can supress the survival of calves compared to leaving an older territorial doe . Also If forestry fences are porous and back onto better ground/crop land i would expect a fairly high pop density using the woodland edges. Thermal may help to get a feel for numbers, as will consistent observation in the lamp. There are always more than you are seeing never less and if you go heavy handed for a season or too it will show and you can back off and the pop will bounce back. I think people can get too hung up on numbers and pop models that can never be 100% accurate and at best over time just show historical trends . Depending on what the management is for better to gauge by actual damage or average bodyweights these can give a reasonable impression of density over time . In a reducing population body weights increment up fairly quickly in an increasing pop body weights plateau or drop back. As has been posted already doe,s are the key

  10. #10
    Lot of sense in last 2 or 3 posts.

    Sure i read somewhere in theory should be a 60/40 split between sexes culling does heaviest and a roughly 60/40 split (or even higher than 60) for young to old.

    Possibly it might be more benefical to measure the habitat state/damage (not really the words i'm looking for, deer impact study1!) know 1 well know stalker would survey the same areas every year and estimate the abundience of certain species the deer eat first. Using quadrats and % abundence scores
    They then tied that together with their cull returns and everything else and years of experience to fine tune and tweak any cull plans also looking at future harvesting/planting.
    While ur numbrs seem high if ur wood is middle aged to mature with decent grazing allaround that density of deer may be thriving and sustainable, its only when u have young trees roe are a big problem, and u want to start culling heavier before the wood is felled never mind restocked, if numbers very high u want to be culling heavier a bit earlier to get pop down.

    But that was back in the day when they had plenty of staff thou, sadly not sure as much of that goes on now and would be dubious about how much emphsis is placed on deer selection nowadays in forestry.
    Staff are so thinnly spread and cull targets so high i think an awfull ot are purely chasing numbers and very few will pass up a safe and easyily extractabe shot now
    Last edited by countrryboy; 13-02-2016 at 11:04.

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