Deer experience needed for deer condition on rifle.

kib16

Member
I have had my FAC application home check today. I wanted one of my rifle to be conditioned for deer stalking. Was told that I won't be able to have it done until I have been on several stalks and used the estate rifle to shoot the deer, recording when, where, type of deer felled and with whom I been with. The questions are: this is a normal practice?, how many would you say is acceptable, so I can say I have enough?
was also told to get my D.SC. 1, which I intended to do anyway, but I was refused expandable ammo on my ticket. Is not this type of bullets required to take the test? Or will I be able to purchase them at the testing place? If you have not guessed I am completely new to deer stalking and therefore any information or help would be greatfuly accepted
 
Have you fulfilled the good reason clause for owning a deer legal rifle, ie have you got permission to shoot deer somewhere and do you have previous firearms experience?
 
I have been a member of a target shooting club for the last 16 months, but have been shooting on and off target for nearly 40 years, it just something I want to try before I get too old and cannot get around anymore as my health is slowly failing. As for land, no I don't have any, I was intending to use paid site ones or join a club
 
I take it you have a deer legal rifle you use for target shooting, book a stalk and apply to have dual use for the gun. Then you can get expanding ammo. Thats what I did, I have also done my DSC1,it stops any argument. Besides its a good way to learn and fun with it.
 
I usually disagree with added conditions on an FAC, but by your own admission you have little experience of deer, perhaps this came across at your interview. You also say you intend to use paid stalks, do that, use the estate rifle, ask the stalker lots of questions and use this as your experience. When you book your stalking, ask if they are willing to put something in writing for you, as a target shooter your firearms safety and shooting technique should be fine.
 
Plenty of people own a deer-legal rifle and go just once a year on a paid stalking trip with a guide, for which they want to use their own rifle.

Therefore if you give as 'good reason' that you intend to go on a stalking outing under the supervision of a guide, and you can proof that you have booked this, you have given sufficient 'good reason' to be granted a deer legal rifle and the required expanding amo.
You may have to argue your point, if you do that in writing (Recorded) , being polite and professional you will find that, in the end, all Firearms Licensing Managers are actually perfectly reasonable and you will get your deer-legal rifle on your FAC.
 
Whilst DSC1 is not conditional it shows you are serious.
and even old hands learn a hell of a lot.
If you have no suitable land then booking 2 or 3 stalking outings
should suffice.
It does seem crazy that you can have armour piercing FMJ
but not expanding ammo, but they obviously want to see a serious
commitment to stalking first.
I dont see why you cannot use your own rifle once you have demonstrated this
and use expanding ammo for any test.
Hope your health keeps up.
 
It does seem crazy that you can have armour piercing FMJ
but not expanding ammo,
.


Not quite Bob. He would be able to possess FMJ but not armour piercing. Unless that what you meant is that FMJ has a reputation for penetration that can be in excess of most expanding ammunition.

Quoting from the guidance document and in particular the section that mentions prohibited weapons and ammunition.

"any ammunition for military use which consists of or incorporates a missile designed, on account of its having a jacket and hard-core, to penetrate armour plating, armour screening or body armour (section 5(1A)(e)); "
 
Last edited:
I had a similar sort of experience with Hampshire Police.

What you need to do is to book well in advance one or better still 2 guided stalks with someone reputable (e.g. a DSC 2 assessor/ AW), this is your good reason.

Then be prepared to argue with the police.

Qualifying for DSC 1 will go very much in your favour as well.

atb Tim
 
Last edited:
I think you have had good advice from this post and although you are probably a very good shot,ask yourself if you have a runner on your first ever how would you feel ?
Also you say you have no land so you will need to go with someone that has so if that's the case use there experience .
They will also show you how to deal with the carcass !
As for the DSC I have never done it that's not to say I'm against it but I do feel it's being forced on us !
I stalk with guys that have experience second to none that have no DSC.
That said I will get round to doing it under my own stem when I get a chance .
 
As Tim has already said, I had a similar situation with Hampshire Police.
They outright refused to grant expanding ammunition as I did not have land to name, this despite having booked my DSC1 course/test (it caused problems on the shooting test as I did not have sufficient time to zero -another story).
I did have an extremely good and understanding outfitter who provided me with written support after I had booked with him (for which I will be eternally grateful) and having passed DSC1 my request was granted with the proviso that it would be reviewed on renewal of my FAC.

HTH
 
Some of the posts here are not filling me with happy thoughts about my application! I put mine in last year with Hampshire (asked for a .308 and 250 rounds of ammo allowance) and am waiting on the background checks to complete so they can do the home visit.

I've done 6 paid stalks already and have another couple which are booked (just need to confirm dates), plus hopefully a week in Scotland next year.

I did also very kindly get a good reference from one of the guys I went stalking previously with which I included with my application.

I'm also booked on my DSC1 course in April (with Sikamalc as it happens).

That in conjunction with my target rifle experience, including competing at a national level, plus time in the RAF reserves where I did a huge amount of shooting should (I hope!!) be enough for them to grant?

I asked for the .308 as I've shot well over 10k rounds of it at ranges from 300x to 1000x, so I know it like the back of my hand.

It does seem like the process is a bit of catch 22 at times! :( Licence wont be granted without a good reason, and you cant get the good reason (permission) without having a licence...

Because who's going to say "yeah sure, you can come and sort my deer out for me... in 6 months"? They have a deer problem now, so they want someone who can sort it now.
 
That in conjunction with my target rifle experience, including competing at a national level, plus time in the RAF reserves where I did a huge amount of shooting should (I hope!!) be enough for them to grant?

I asked for the .308 as I've shot well over 10k rounds of it at ranges from 300x to 1000x, so I know it like the back of my hand.

It does seem like the process is a bit of catch 22 at times! :( .

Unfortunately in my experience is that very little credence is given to target or military experience by the licencing staff when it comes to getting a rifle conditioned for stalking/field use.
it does sound like you have made a good effort with the booked stalking and reference though.

good luck
 
Just to include my own experience for information.
I applied for a deer legal calibre and was told I needed to have some experience - I asked what constituted experience for my authority. The answer came back a number of stalks with a 'suitably experienced stalker'. So I contacted a very experienced stalker and asked him for a number he thought would be sufficient experience - he advised that Greater Manchester specified 4. So I booked 4 over a period, used his rifle and received a note confirming I had been on 4 stalks with him - he is also a firearms dealer and well known to the issuing authority. I applied for a .308 for 'peripatetic stalking'(different places) and received it, as asked for with AOLQ. It came fully opened (I had .22 CF for years), 250 rounds granted. Some say Cheshire is a 'little difficult' but they were great, some clarification required but all OK - this was at renewal time. I also had the number required by an adjacent police area so was prepared to argue the toss if it proved necessary.
DSC1 is NOT necessary as you are going to learn with an experienced stalker and should, in my view, be resisited.
 
Plenty of people own a deer-legal rifle and go just once a year on a paid stalking trip with a guide, for which they want to use their own rifle.

Therefore if you give as 'good reason' that you intend to go on a stalking outing under the supervision of a guide, and you can proof that you have booked this, you have given sufficient 'good reason' to be granted a deer legal rifle and the required expanding amo.
You may have to argue your point, if you do that in writing (Recorded) , being polite and professional you will find that, in the end, all Firearms Licensing Managers are actually perfectly reasonable and you will get your deer-legal rifle on your FAC.

I agree.
:)
 
Ditto with Hampshire Police. I did my DSC Level 1 and then got a letter from my stalking mentor who was an AW and planned to mentor me to Level 2 on their licensed ground. No issue then and got the FAC updated for a 243 for deer.
 
It does annoy me when you have such inconsistencies between police forces interpreting the same law and reading the same Home Office guidelines and coming up with such a wide range of mostly unjustifiable requirements. I am thankful to be living in North Wales where we currently have sensible FLOs. They even rung me up during my recent FAC renewal to say that if I sent a cheque for £3 they would also issue a co-terminus SC. I happily obliged. I don't have named land, I don't have DSC, I have AOLQ on both rifles (.243 and .270) and therefore happily nothing to complain about. :)

I think I should add that this was my 6th FAC renewal.
 
Not quite Bob. He would be able to possess FMJ but not armour piercing. Unless that what you meant is that FMJ has a reputation for penetration that can be in excess of most expanding ammunition.

Quoting from the guidance document and in particular the section that mentions prohibited weapons and ammunition.

"any ammunition for military use which consists of or incorporates a missile designed, on account of its having a jacket and hard-core, to penetrate armour plating, armour screening or body armour (section 5(1A)(e)); "

thanks thats exactly what I meant, didn`t mean to confuse the issue, using the term loosely in comparison,
 
Back
Top