Could I justify this?

oxfordshirestalker

Well-Known Member
Hi all, just one of my "out of interest" type posts again! Thanks for all your help with my questions so far. Very helpful forum.

Ive been wondering how easy it would be to justify both a .22lr and a 17hmr. I know they're different but there's also quite a lot of overlap.

The farm over which I intend to shoot has some grass fields with soft ground but is close to the village. The .22 would be ideal for rabbits due to less ricochet risk etc. Also, due to it being close to houses, the lack of sonic crack would be much appreciated.

many of the arable fields are clay soil which bakes hard in the summer and therefore the 22 risks being pretty bouncy and dangerous here. Equally, the rabbits tend to be further away and I may want to take a safe shot at a close range fox with the 17hmr being more suited to this. The sonic crack is also no issue on these fields.
What do you think my chances would be of justifying both?

i was thinking I'd spend a bit of money on a decent 17hmr set up and then get a cheap second hand cz 452 or similar.

Thanks
 
I think you'll be alright, lots of people have both and they're sufficiently different to not raise any eyebrows.
Also note that the oft-quoted HO guidance states very clearly that good reason must not be equated to "need". You don't have to need a particular calibre to still have a good reason. For example I have a 270 and authority to acquire a 243. I don't need a 243 because my 270 will certainly kill anything that a 243 would, but deer stalking is my good reason for both calibres and it's perfectly acceptable to want two (or more!) rifles for the same purpose in different circumstances.
 
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Thames Valley are not very happy about using a 17hmr on a fox and would rather you use a 222 or 243.
You could always put down for centre fire and see what happens.
I've got a Sako Quad with .22 and 17hmr barrel, which is a handy tool but a pain to re-zero........
 
I think your logic is back to front. Or you've mis-written your first paragraph.

. IMHO the richochet candidate is the .22LR! Have you tried any of the ultra velocity .22LR offerings? What distance are you shooting over? Are you eating the rabbits?

I'd say that .22LR except in ideal circumstances is inhumane for fox. But hear good reports on the ultra fast .17 rimfire calibres. Is .17 HMR the powerful one? Or is that the other .17 rimfire?

Lastly I'd be concerned in taking a shot where a possible richochet then becomes a possible hazard. As clearly...and this may then be used against you...it indicates that a shot on THAT land in THAT direction has been assessed by you as potentially unsafe.

So be careful how you use the richochet argument to gain a .17 if in doing so you jeopardise your .22. But good luck. I think the calibres are different enough ti justify the two...especially as the .22LR is. a cheaper option for multiple culling of rabbits, rats, pigeons, and etc.

Shooting decoyed pigeons with a .22LR and a moderator and old school slow sub sonics from a hide is good sport. As long as you shoot the bird with an adequate regard to a backstop.
 
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I use both on the farm which also has houses nearby. I think that you can use both in the winter but I will tend to use the .22 with mod and subsonics in the summer on the fields that are close to houses as windows are more likely to be open and parents are trying to get kids to sleep and/or enjoy a sundowner or 2 in the garden. The .17hmr has proved invaluable at longer range to sort out some of the more alert vermin. If you are worried at all about backstops then you could put high seats up. atb Geoff
 
I think your logic is back to front. IMHO the richochet candidate is the .22LR! Have you tried any of the ultra velocity .22LR offerings? What distance are you shooting over?

Lastly I'd be concerned in taking a shot where a possible richochet then becomes a possible hazard. As clearly...and this may then be used against you...it indicates that a shot on THAT land in THAT direction has been assessed by you as potentially unsafe.

So be careful how you use the richochet argument to gain a .17 if in doing so you jeopardise your .22.

Yes, sorry, in my original post I've made a little bit of an error having read it back. The third paragraph should say that the .22lr would be ideal BUT there is an increased ricochet risk with the .22lr making it somewhat unsuitable on some of the land. The fields where I suggest the 22 would be more acceptable are much softer in nature and are also the ones closer to the houses. Hope that vaguely clears things up...
Thanks for all replies so far!
 
Don't see why not.
All my FEO said was "Make your case", and I was granted;
1x .17hmr (Kent are happy with the calibre for fox), 1x .22lr for day shooting and one permanently set up for night shooting rabbits.
 
Dorset used (well still are) unhappy with 17HMR for fox but now follow HO guidelines as directed :D
so i got 22 Rimfire for Vermin and 17HMR for Fox

had a whole argument ready at he interview to justify 2 for vermin wasnt aware they had had their mind changed ) as one for use with Night vision as well as a Silent gun vis a longer range gun etc etc

in the end was easy Fox as reason was sufficiently different so no problem

I had applied for a 17Hornet as well in case the HMR was rejected
 
I have had both a 17HMR and a 22LR on my FAC at the same time with Lancashire Constabulary. There is no real reason why you should not have both as long as you have "Good Reason" for them in your application.
I justified my "Good Reason" by using the 17HMR (With moderator) for longer distance shooting at rabbits and other ground vermin and had the 22LR (With moderator) for lamping rabbits with.
As stated previously it is all down to how you word your "Good Reason" on your application.
Good luck with your application!
 
They both have their uses, I have a 22Lr and a 17HMR and they both get used but more and more I tend to go for the 17. However I couldn't see myself without the 22. Summer shooting is certainly less problematical with the 17 as ricochets happen but only very rarely.
 
I can't see an issue at all. The .22lr with subsonic is superb for reasonably close rabbits and is also great when noise is a potential issue. The .17HMR I find wonderful for further out targets. I have 2 X .22lr and these are justified as one for 'stalking' rabbits and a carbine .22lr out of the Land Rover where barrel length can be an issue. I have to say that neither of the .22lr have any condition to that affect on my certificate. The .17HMR is just superb; head shooting rabbits at over 100metres. Love my little Anshutz
 
22or when silence is needed, 17 (remington or fireball) for daytime vermin and Fox and 22/250 for night vision use. Simples!
Personally I have steered clear of the HMR due to ammo issues
 
They are a similar round, but the differences as outlined above should give you reason to apply for and be granted the two I should think. The .22LR for quieter and closer work. The .17HMR for longer range work. You could also, if you intend to shoot at night have one for day and the other with a night setup, which would also be good reason.

Having the .17HMR available for foxes would be a bonus perhaps although there would be better tools if that was your main quarry.
 
Can't see a problem with it. All classed as good reason. I have 2x .22LR slots and 1x HMR all for vermin and West Mercia didn't bat an eyelid, in fact they encouraged it - .22 for quiet / close work, HMR for longer range and the second .22 for me to have a semi or tactical as an alternative to my CZ452 bolt action.
 
Just a thought in response.
If, instead of a .17 HMR you opted for a .17 Hornet, you would then have experience of centrefires, the bang is very manageable with a suppressor, the kick is negligeable and you are flat out to 200 yds. The ammo is 'explosive' in contact with any ground (17/20 grain and 3000+ft/second MV and will not therefore ricochet under normal circs. I would go for a .22, new CZ good glass, .17 hornet CZ, night/day vision, infra red torch mounted on top - in fact I have, this is my favourite tool for 'carrying', taking rabbit, fox, crow, etc. day or night.
 
I have a .17hmr and a 22lr. These are my first FAC firearms and during my interview I was asked why I wanted both calibres. I said that I had land where both calibres have their strengths and weaknesses, I mentioned about how quiet the .22lr was and that I knew about it's tendency to ricochet. I also said about the accuracy and frangible nature of the .17hmr round but with the increased noise. He seemed more than happy with my answers but did say that they favoured the .17hmr over the .22lr due to its frangible nature and less likely to ricochet.

All in all, I'm more than happy with my choices. The only thing I will say about the .17hmr is that it is a bit messy when used close up.
 
Just a thought in response.
If, instead of a .17 HMR you opted for a .17 Hornet, you would then have experience of centrefires, the bang is very manageable with a suppressor, the kick is negligeable and you are flat out to 200 yds. The ammo is 'explosive' in contact with any ground (17/20 grain and 3000+ft/second MV and will not therefore ricochet under normal circs. I would go for a .22, new CZ good glass, .17 hornet CZ, night/day vision, infra red torch mounted on top - in fact I have, this is my favourite tool for 'carrying', taking rabbit, fox, crow, etc. day or night.

You must have deep pockets, it's not very cost effective for rabbits or Crows -during daylight, esp for a new shooter wanting to plink as well. The HMR is a great little round IMO, maybe doesn't fragment as positively as the .17 Hornet but a good intro to shooting live rounds. £11 a box of fifty it's a no brainer for myself.
 
You must have deep pockets, it's not very cost effective for rabbits or Crows -during daylight, esp for a new shooter wanting to plink as well. The HMR is a great little round IMO, maybe doesn't fragment as positively as the .17 Hornet but a good intro to shooting live rounds. £11 a box of fifty it's a no brainer for myself.


its £17 a box round here
 
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