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Thread: Bang Flop Research - a year on

  1. #1

    Bang Flop Research - a year on

    This time last year I put out an appeal for some help with research into the Bang Flop phenomena.

    12 months on and 5 of us have contributed to the data pool and we have good information on 141 deer shot in the chest. We are not interested in head or neck shots, we all know what happens to them already.

    Because there are so many different calibre's, bullet weights, bullet constructions, terminal velocities, species etc. our data pool is still not large enough to come up with too much in the way of conclusions. We set out to get 1000 records and it looks like we will have to get that many to prove anything.

    I was very fortunate that one of the SD members volunteered to help work on the data. He is a scientist, statistician and keen stalker. His analysis of the data has been very professional and he has kept me on the straight and narrow. I will not mention his name here, but he will make himself known if he wants to.

    There are some patterns emerging, but the numbers we have for each calibre and bullet type are not great enough to prove anything statistically.

    A couple of things we have been able to prove statistically.

    The greater the awareness of the deer to imminent danger the lower the chance of a Bang Flop.

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    The larger the animal the lower the chance of a Bang Flop.

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    The faster you drive a bullet the higher the chance of a Bang Flop.

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    What we want to get into is the effect that calibre has, the effect that bullet weight has and the effect that bullet construction has. To get there and prove it beyond reasonable doubt we are going to need help.

    This is an appeal to all you guys to help by sending us your data. I have a simple spreadsheet that we would ask you to complete with each deer shot. When you get to 10 on the sheet just send it back to me and we will add yours to the pool of data. Your chance to be part of a study that could give us all some proven answers on subjects that we all spend a lot of time discussing.

    We are interested in everyones data. Everything is relevant - providing it's UK deer species shot with a legal calibre. There are so many gaps it's difficult to go through all of them, but here are a few we would like to get hold of:

    Those driving .30 cal bullets over 3000 fps MV
    Anyone with a 270
    Anyone driving 7mm bullets slowly
    .25 cal
    Anyone using Barnes TTSX or TSX bullets

    Remember, it's chest shots only.

    If you can help please PM your email address to me and I will send out the form and instructions.

    Thanks,

    NigelM
    So much to learn and so little time left

  2. #2
    Nigel, I was also thinking of the following. Were the bullets pass throughs or not. What was the size of the deformed bullet if it was not a pass through?
    Blaser K95 Stutzen - the ultimate deer stalking rifle

  3. #3
    So I keep detailed records for all deer shot by Myself or guests going back years with my own rifles.
    The rifles used during the last 5 years on all the UK deer are, 243, 7x57, 7x64, 308, 375 and I even have data for .729[12 bore]from 20 years ago.
    Would any of this be useful.?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by levigsp View Post
    So I keep detailed records for all deer shot by Myself or guests going back years with my own rifles.
    The rifles used during the last 5 years on all the UK deer are, 243, 7x57, 7x64, 308, 375 and I even have data for .729[12 bore]from 20 years ago.
    Would any of this be useful.?
    That would ALL be extremely useful!

  5. #5
    This is a fantastic start to a vey worthwhile project. Having seen the results so far I would ask that anyone who can help, even with a few cases steps forwards and joins in. The data collection is not difficult or arduous but the results have the potential to change how we conduct our stalking activities. Surely we must be able to get to 1000 cases between us all!

  6. #6
    Just to say that I'm the one responsible for the statistics.

    The figures that Nigel has posted have robust statistical support, and are not terribly controversial (which means that I have confidence in our ability to detect genuine patterns).

    However, we do need a lot more data, especially in the areas Nigel has outlined.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mchughcb View Post
    Nigel, I was also thinking of the following. Were the bullets pass throughs or not. What was the size of the deformed bullet if it was not a pass through?
    In terms of the outcome we're interested in, this shouldn't matter: we have data on bullet weight, bullet construction, velocity, animal live weight and shot distance. Those variables will be the ones that largely determine whether or not you get a pass through.

    Think of it this way: whether or not you get a pass through is really an OUTCOME rather than a contributing variable.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by levigsp View Post
    So I keep detailed records for all deer shot by Myself or guests going back years with my own rifles.
    The rifles used during the last 5 years on all the UK deer are, 243, 7x57, 7x64, 308, 375 and I even have data for .729[12 bore]from 20 years ago.
    Would any of this be useful.?
    That would be fantastic. PM me your email address and I will send you the forms out.

    Thank you.
    So much to learn and so little time left

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by srvet View Post
    This is a fantastic start to a vey worthwhile project. Having seen the results so far I would ask that anyone who can help, even with a few cases steps forwards and joins in. The data collection is not difficult or arduous but the results have the potential to change how we conduct our stalking activities. Surely we must be able to get to 1000 cases between us all!

    Just to echo this: it doesn't matter how few records you have - any will do. Especially people shooting slower cartridges (7X57, 6.5X55, 7X65R), people shooting fast 30cals (300WM, hot loads for .30-06), people shooting 6mms at larger species, and people shooting copper bullets at any speed.

  10. #10
    Kevin "Doctari" Robertson a qualified Zimbabwe vet has extensively written about this subject in his book "The Perfect Shot" and also goes onto demonstrate in his accompanying DVD the cause of the apparent randomness of chest shots that result in either runners or dead on the spot kills.

    He also advocates heavy for calibre bullets at moderate speeds which he believe dumps more energy into the animal, he must know something as Norma do an entire range of bullets based on his findings.
    Last edited by Cumbrian 1; 02-03-2016 at 09:14.

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