Shortening the Fallow Buck season

Discopete

Well-Known Member
Anybody with any knowledge of the current numbers of Fallow deer in England will know that the numbers seem to be at a point of no return to try and keep them in check. All you seem to see on social media nowadays is pictures of people with fallow bucks shot when it probably would have been better to shot a doe or 2.

Do people think the Fallow Buck season should be drastically shortened to protect them a bit and try to encourage people to leave some bucks to reach their potential, I believe there is a real shortage in some areas of any bucks let alone master bucks.

I understand a lot of people will sell Bucks to clients for big money but this is done primarily in and around the rut so don't think this will have any effect. Perhaps a close season to mirror the Roe bucks and then another thought could the Red/Sika stags also have the same protection, in England only obviously?
 
Anybody with any knowledge of the current numbers of Fallow deer in England will know that the numbers seem to be at a point of no return to try and keep them in check. All you seem to see on social media nowadays is pictures of people with fallow bucks shot when it probably would have been better to shot a doe or 2.

Do people think the Fallow Buck season should be drastically shortened to protect them a bit and try to encourage people to leave some bucks to reach their potential, I believe there is a real shortage in some areas of any bucks let alone master bucks.

I understand a lot of people will sell Bucks to clients for big money but this is done primarily in and around the rut so don't think this will have any effect. Perhaps a close season to mirror the Roe bucks and then another thought could the Red/Sika stags also have the same protection, in England only obviously?

Agree that the buck/stag season is too long in the areas I stalk. I would like to see them safe from say end of December would be nice. There will always be exceptional areas where stags/bucks congregate but in general, give them a longer safe period.
 
It's a very valid point. I'd like to think that folk would have some sound idea of local populations and demographics on their perms, and to know when to leave well enough alone in a given area. It would be good to have the season kept as it is for practical reasons, and no-one really wants MORE legislation preventing responsible folk from carrying out proper management, but there should be perhaps be more emphasis made on herd management than on trophy.

Thats my tuppence, anyway...
 
Agree, I have been quite vocal locally on this. It really annoys when a fellow stalker boasts of his latest buck shot when there are does to be culled
 
agree with that we are overrun with does on our bit. but then other stalkers and clients around the area don't want does on the wall. its the same thing with the roe the does are left to increase in numbers and the bucks are shot on sight. we will be trying to cull right up to the last day just to keep the numbers down .
 
It's nothing to do with the length of season, it's the Feckin idiots that have no idea about deer management that need to be changed! Trophy hunting will be the death of the recreational stalker.
If anything, shooting bucks in hard antler should be banned, as should shooting any deer during the rut! Proper deer management should be about replicating what nature would achieve if we still had natural predators. Culling the young, sick, lame and lazy and allowing the best and fittest animals to survive. Culling females is the key to population control. Any stalker that chooses to shoot a buck over a doe in areas where there is a real fallow problem shouldn't be doing the job in the first instance. Does will always get covered, and if they don't then that wouldn't be a bad thing. As for genetics of a master buck - I suspect most deer would mature to become that if given the chance?
MS
 
Any stalker that chooses to shoot a buck over a doe in areas where there is a real fallow problem shouldn't be doing the job in the first instance. Does will always get covered, and if they don't then that wouldn't be a bad thing. As for genetics of a master buck - I suspect most deer would mature to become that if given the chance?
MS[/QUOTE]

Absolutely 100% spot on post.
 
It's not just trophy hunting it people selling for venison. Why shoot a smaller lighter doe when a big heavy buck is worth more on the scales for less expenditure?
 
It's nothing to do with the length of season, it's the Feckin idiots that have no idea about deer management that need to be changed! Trophy hunting will be the death of the recreational stalker.
If anything, shooting bucks in hard antler should be banned, as should shooting any deer during the rut! Proper deer management should be about replicating what nature would achieve if we still had natural predators. Culling the young, sick, lame and lazy and allowing the best and fittest animals to survive. Culling females is the key to population control. Any stalker that chooses to shoot a buck over a doe in areas where there is a real fallow problem shouldn't be doing the job in the first instance. Does will always get covered, and if they don't then that wouldn't be a bad thing. As for genetics of a master buck - I suspect most deer would mature to become that if given the chance?
MS
Absolutely spot on....
 
It's not just trophy hunting it people selling for venison. Why shoot a smaller lighter doe when a big heavy buck is worth more on the scales for less expenditure?

You hit the nail on the head. I would say 80% of "stalkers" see deer as £ signs. If venison was worth very low money I bet half the people wouldn't even go out.
 
It's not just trophy hunting it people selling for venison. Why shoot a smaller lighter doe when a big heavy buck is worth more on the scales for less expenditure?

+1 In my area on a piece that is a "Sanctuary" there is normally a bunch of up to 120 fallow. Bucks and does together for peace. Once they move onto stalked land ie where there is a keeper or other "Worthy" the bucks are whacked for the pennies,being the biggest animals. Only one buck and two or three sorrels in the whole bunch. I no longer shoot any buck (even prickets) just shooting does for my landowner's and my own consumption.
 
I understand what your saying about it's not the seasons it's the people, but expecting recreational stalkers to restrict themselves to only shooting does when they could shoot a buck is not going to happen, we both know that.
Its not just bucks either, how often when your out is a pricket the first thing that presents a shot? Some people would wait for a doe but how many others would?

Unfortunately proper deer management is not really thought of much anymore especially in the south east. Thats why we have a problem at the minute which Is about to get bigger I would expect soon if it's not tackled.

I'm not saying there isn't good people out there who are doing a good job either im sure there is a lot especially in the south east.
 
The other problem is 'small farm syndrome' which you will be used to in the South West. The same deer will span the area of several farms and permissions. You then get the situation where a stalker thinks "if I don't shoot it now that I have the chance, next door will"! It then becomes an unhealthy competition which is not good for deer welfare.
I took on another estate last year which is quite large (11,500 acres) and has a good population of fallow. Even there though the population is still transient with adjacent estates. However, with guidance and courageous restraint, we have not shot a Buck yet over about 4 years old and the monster master bucks are still quite safe. Mind you, you rarely see them as they didn't get that big by being daft! We could have shot loads in the rut, (hence my earlier comment about banning culling in the rut!), but that would have ruined the entire population dynamics. We may shoot a couple of older ones in April once the does are finished, but carefully controlled and limited! It is much easier when you have control over larger areas and numerous stalkers, but small farms and recreational 'lone wolf' stalkers are a recipe for disaster if you are looking for a healthy population in balance with the environment. That said, there are areas where the fallow are so out of control now that every one shot is a bonus!
Cooperation and landscape management only work if everyone is in agreement and play the game. The DI promote regional deer group meetings and collaborative effort, but this only works if everyone is involved and supportive.
MS
 
The other problem is 'small farm syndrome' which you will be used to in the South West. The same deer will span the area of several farms and permissions. You then get the situation where a stalker thinks "if I don't shoot it now that I have the chance, next door will"! It then becomes an unhealthy competition which is not good for deer welfare.
I took on another estate last year which is quite large (11,500 acres) and has a good population of fallow. Even there though the population is still transient with adjacent estates. However, with guidance and courageous restraint, we have not shot a Buck yet over about 4 years old and the monster master bucks are still quite safe. Mind you, you rarely see them as they didn't get that big by being daft! We could have shot loads in the rut, (hence my earlier comment about banning culling in the rut!), but that would have ruined the entire population dynamics. We may shoot a couple of older ones in April once the does are finished, but carefully controlled and limited! It is much easier when you have control over larger areas and numerous stalkers, but small farms and recreational 'lone wolf' stalkers are a recipe for disaster if you are looking for a healthy population in balance with the environment. That said, there are areas where the fallow are so out of control now that every one shot is a bonus!
Cooperation and landscape management only work if everyone is in agreement and play the game. The DI promote regional deer group meetings and collaborative effort, but this only works if everyone is involved and supportive.
MS

+1 can't argue with perfect logic from MS again.
 
I know of at least two farms where the farmer rents out the stalking rights and the stalkers only come down in the rut to shoot a couple of nice bucks. I've heard the farmer moaning about the number of fallow (does and young) that he sees all the time but the stalker isn't interested in those.
 
The other problem is 'small farm syndrome' which you will be used to in the South West. The same deer will span the area of several farms and permissions. You then get the situation where a stalker thinks "if I don't shoot it now that I have the chance, next door will"! It then becomes an unhealthy competition which is not good for deer welfare.
I took on another estate last year which is quite large (11,500 acres) and has a good population of fallow. Even there though the population is still transient with adjacent estates. However, with guidance and courageous restraint, we have not shot a Buck yet over about 4 years old and the monster master bucks are still quite safe. Mind you, you rarely see them as they didn't get that big by being daft! We could have shot loads in the rut, (hence my earlier comment about banning culling in the rut!), but that would have ruined the entire population dynamics. We may shoot a couple of older ones in April once the does are finished, but carefully controlled and limited! It is much easier when you have control over larger areas and numerous stalkers, but small farms and recreational 'lone wolf' stalkers are a recipe for disaster if you are looking for a healthy population in balance with the environment. That said, there are areas where the fallow are so out of control now that every one shot is a bonus!
Cooperation and landscape management only work if everyone is in agreement and play the game. The DI promote regional deer group meetings and collaborative effort, but this only works if everyone is involved and supportive.
MS


You obviously manage your deer population very well which you should be commended for and is the way it should be done but not many people do that anymore, it doesn't matter wether your in Devon, Hertfordshire or Essex if you only have people interested in bucks that's all they will shoot if their allowed to. Like you say if people know a neighbour is going to shoot any Buck they can they will get in there first, but if they had more of a close season at least there is only a certain amount of time they could do that in.

You only have to look on Facebook in certain groups to see how many people post photos of the bucks they shot and giving themselves a nice pat on the back.

You cannot expect everyone stalking these days to be self regulating and have the standard of a herd in the fore front of their mind.
 
You only have to look on Facebook in certain groups to see how many people post photos of the bucks they shot and giving themselves a nice pat on the back.

gave myself a good pat on the back yesterday took a nice master buck, extenuating circumstances he was very lame on his back left leg ,I've left big bucks like him many many times in the last 10 yrs as it was estate policy but when a case like this comes along you have to do what's best coincidentally had a young buck caught in double strand barbed wire in the same day by his back leg he was dispatched looked like an oldish injury on the big boy but my conscience is clear
Norma



 
You hit the nail on the head. I would say 80% of "stalkers" see deer as £ signs. If venison was worth very low money I bet half the people wouldn't even go out.

I can't see that at all ,in forty years of stalking I've never once had the conversation with any off the friends I stalk with that included someone saying I shot a buck because it was worth more ...and to say 80% of stalkers wouldn't stalk if it wasn't money-orientated is an insult ..How many on the SD go out time after time and blank ? , on your thinking they would all jack it in .Most recreational stalkers take the first opportunity that presents because it may well be the only one , and most professional stalkers I would like to think are just that , professional ..
 
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