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Thread: Changing rifles?? 30-06 for 30-06

  1. #1

    Changing rifles?? 30-06 for 30-06

    I have a immaculate T3 hunter in 30-06 which has less than 50Rnds through it but I have seen the rifle I really wanted come up for sale at a good price and wanted to know how do I go about changing the rifle on my ticket.
    sorry for the newbie question but I am on my first English FAC

  2. #2
    SD Regular
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    Hello. That they are the same calibre, that they might in fact be both identical is irrelevant for the purposes of what you FAC allows you to possess. Thus you cannot (and must not) think that if you sell the .30-06 that you have on your FAC that you can then go an buy a same calibre replacement without an empty "slot" (as some call it) for a SECOND .30-06.

    So disposal of .30-06 "number 1" doesn't permit you just to go an buy .30-06 "number 2" using the logic that as your authorised to possess a .30-06 and you've just sold that one you can buy another one and be legal and lawful.

    So. Two routes:

    1) Keep the .30-06 "number 1" and apply for a variation to acquire an additional .30-06 (.30-06 "number 2") for which you will have to pay a variation fee. But the advantage of this is that you still have a .30-06 and can still use it just as you have already been doing. Then when you've got .30-06 "number 2" you can sell .30-06 "number 1". Or say "Oh dear...."number 2" is really "number twos" and I'm glad I've not now sold my .30-06 "number 1".

    2) Sell .30-06 "number 1" so you no longer have any interest in it. As soon as (and in any case within a resaonable period...some forces use a timeline of seven days but there's nothing set in the Home Office Guidance) you've sold it then apply for a varitaion which would be said to be "1x.30-06 to replace the T3 Huner that has been sold". This is the "one for one" variation and, of course as it doesn't increase the number of weapons held is free.

    The ideal solution would be to negoatiate a trade in against your "dream rifle", then apply for a variation to acquire "1x .30-06" and when that comes through take the "number 1" to the RFD, take the trade in price off the cost of "number 2" and have the RFD enter that on your licence. That way you've only one letter to write advising "1x disposal and 1x acquisition" and only one RFD to deal with. My option 1) in fact.

    Some would argue that you don't get a free "one for one" but the reality is that the small money saving is nothing compared to the convenience of being able to carry on shooting whilst your FAC awaits the variation...and then sell the T3 Hunter the as soon as the FAC comes back with the authority to acquire that "dream" rifle.

    That's the way I'd do it and any reasonable FEO should be OK with it if you explain it that way. That's the PITA with rifles...like buses you don't see the one that you really, really want until you've bought the one that "will have to make do". Most FEOs will understand that.
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 17-03-2016 at 23:53.

  3. #3
    A very timely thread!
    I am in the same situation.
    So Enfieldspares, i am glad you have posted that, i was under the misguided impression that once i sold my 30-06 to a third party i had in effect an empty slot so i could purchase my replacement 30-06.
    As you say it's a one for one so no variation fee.
    Cheers
    Richard

  4. #4
    SD Regular
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    Jesus! No! There's even case law on it. So it's well established that you can't and in addition you'll be probably prosecuted.

    “One for one” variations10.61 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms,even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe,Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms thatare authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to changean existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder mustapply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of openauthorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particularfirearms.

    Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holdersubmitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 202 to the policefirearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases,it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries willbe necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a fullborefirearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 17-03-2016 at 23:47.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by enfieldspares View Post
    Jesus! No! There's even case law on it. So it's well established that you can't and in addition you'll be probably prosecuted.
    As i say thanks, i will contact the firearms office tomorrow.
    I have only ever traded in one rifle before, it was so long ago, and i dealt with a RFD, so can't even remember how it was achieved then, although i do remember being refunded the variation fee as it was one for one.
    Cheers
    Richard

  6. #6
    I had a very similar situation a little while ago when I was offered a very nice .270 Steyr Mannlicher "as a gift" but already had a Parker Hale Safari on in .270 on my ticket. I explained the situation to my firearms department over the phone (I'm with Lancashire Constabulary and I have a very good working relationship with them) I explained that I wanted to part with the Parker Hale but did not want to be without a "deer legal rifle" during the period that I was waiting for a 1 for 1 variation to be processed.
    What they agreed to do was to allow me to hold on to my Parker Hale .270 (On my ticket) while they did my (Free) 1 for 1 variation by adding a "spare slot" for second .270 Bolt Action Rifle so that as soon as I got my FAC back with a "slot" to get a second .270 I could get that Mannlicher and then get rid of the Parker Hale (within a "reasonable time") so that I did not have 2 rifles of the same calibre (.270) for longer than was deemed reasonable. They did this on what they called a "Trust Basis", effectively trusting me to get rid of the Parker Hale within a reasonable time of getting the Steyr Mannlicher.
    When I got my FAC back I was able to get the .270 Mannlicher and leave my Parker Hale in storage with the RFD (A good friend) who was gifting me the Mannlicher - Effectively signing over the Parker Hale to him and getting it off my ticket so that I only owned/had one .270 in my possession but wasn't without a "deer legal rifle" in the interim period!
    It might be worth while speaking to your Firearms Department to see if they could do a similar thing for you!



  7. #7
    eminently sensible FL department there

    I would personally approach them and ask for another slot
    for 20 expenditure it will save you a lot of ball ache and hassle at a later date

    justification is no problem
    also ALWAYS apply for a moderator FOR EVERY rifle application regardless if you intend to use it
    Invaluable slot providers at no cost at a later date!

  8. #8
    +1 for the "moderator" slot!

    Very easy to do a one for one if you have a slot for a mod.

    Don't ask how an inert "tin can" can become a fully functioning barrel,stock,action,receiver in law......but it can and it does!

    Personally I would simply ask for a ".30cal rifle" to be put on the ticket....this can then legally be utilised for a .308, .30-06, .300wm , .300RUM etc without having to specify exactly what cartridge you are buying . I have done this with a 6.5mm on two occasions

    Some forces do this, others are perhaps not as "enlightened"!

    Good Luck

    DT

  9. #9
    With regards to placing the calibre rather than the cartridge on the ticket.. I applied for a 7mm Rem Mag, and my ticket came back with 7mm Magnum on it. I then went to buy a 7mm Rem Mag from the gun shop, and was told that he couldn't sell me the rifle as it didn't specify the cartridge... So then had to send my ticket off again to be changed... Was very annoying. I seem to recall the bloke saying it might be deemed illegal by some forces so wasn't worth the risk to him or something.

    Edit; it wasn't the calibre that was the problem actually , it was that I had a slot for a R93 barrel, and wanted to buy the stock the barrel came in too. Unbeknown to me at the time the stocks have to be licenced as well... At the time I simply thought that a barrel was the only licensable part of a rifle so would be free to buy as many stocks as I want. I think the trouble is that the stock has a trigger in built.. So had to go through the rigmarole of sending my licence off again. My licence did come back with 7mm Rem Mag rather than 7mm Magnum the second time though.
    Last edited by turner.jc1; 18-03-2016 at 10:15.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by devon deer stalker View Post
    As i say thanks, i will contact the firearms office tomorrow.
    I have only ever traded in one rifle before, it was so long ago, and i dealt with a RFD, so can't even remember how it was achieved then, although i do remember being refunded the variation fee as it was one for one.
    Cheers
    Richard
    What I have always done with D&C is to send the completed form in requesting the variation together with a note asking them to put my existing one on a temp permit, thus enableing me to use my existing rifle until the variation comes through. The temp permit also allows me to keep the existing rifle untill I dispose of it.

    They have always been most obliging, and it's free!!

    Charlie

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