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Thread: If they won't allow hmr for fox then .222 or .223?

  1. #1

    If they won't allow hmr for fox then .222 or .223?

    Morning all, applied for my FAC, 22lr and hmr (can justify both). My plan was to ask the FEO about hmr for fox and assuming he says no, ask for either a .222 or .223. My police force is Thames Valley and I have a decent amount of permission cleared for .243 at least, probably .308.

    I therefore have a couple of questions:

    1. What's the likelyhood of being granted a .22CF on a first FAC?

    2. If you had to choose between 222 or 223 which would you go for? I'll be using factory ammo to begin with but that may change with time. Really keen for something standard and well known, I know that things like the 204 are great but I want easy availability of ammo etc.

    Please don't use this as an arguing the pros and cons of hmr for fox, I've read it all, seen it in real life and understood

    many thanks

  2. #2
    1 you should get HMR as Fox for reason to grant as that is HO guidance which they are supposed to follow

    2 you should get AOLQ on both guns any way regardless of reason to grant which covers fox as per HO guidance on Conditioning

    so either way Both 22LR and 17HMR shoud be legaly allowed to be used on Fox even if Reason for both is Vermin


    If they are one ot the PITA forces still trying to buck the Code of practice as issued by the College of policing and ignore HO guidance then ask why and if they have Informed the College in writing as to why they wont follow Protocol

    im dorset and they used to refuse 17HMR for fox and not Issue AOLQ so i was expecting a problem when i applied some months after phoning for advice on cals But it had all changed and yes 17HMR is fine for fox and AOLQ on all cals as per HO . they weren't happy with not being able to slap Mentor on new CF FACs but didn't argue the mandate to stop using them
    Last edited by FGYT; 13-04-2016 at 08:55.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttoshoot View Post
    Morning all, applied for my FAC, 22lr and hmr (can justify both).
    My plan was to ask the FEO about hmr for fox and assuming he says no, ask for either a .222 or .223.
    My police force is Thames Valley and I have a decent amount of permission cleared for .243 at least, probably .308.

    I therefore have a couple of questions:

    1. What's the likelyhood of being granted a .22CF on a first FAC?

    2. If you had to choose between 222 or 223 which would you go for? I'll be using factory ammo to begin with but that may change with time. Really keen for something standard and well known, I know that things like the 204 are great but I want easy availability of ammo etc.

    Please don't use this as an arguing the pros and cons of hmr for fox, I've read it all, seen it in real life and understood

    many thanks

    assuming he says no he has really painted himself into a corner!
    unless you really want a CF then push back, they have no justification to limit quarry legal, morally or under any element of legislation against cruelty to animals.
    If you can kill a rabbit humanely at 60yds with a .22lr then you should have no problem killing a fox humanely at 60-100yds with an HMR

    223 will get you more factory choices in most shops...but I like .222 personally

  4. #4
    Why not .243 as your covered on your land and also fine with all deer species assuming you would like to shoot deer.

  5. #5
    i'd agree with the last quote - if you can only get one larger cal rifle then why not a .243 (if you have deer to shoot on your ground)? If you don't and its a toss up between the .222 and .223 people who own one will all have a view. I own and love the .222 but hear only good things about the .223, not helpful but i suppose what it really tells you is not much to choose from between the two calibres

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 09mutley05 View Post
    Why not .243 as your covered on your land and also fine with all deer species assuming you would like to shoot deer.
    +1 unless you particularly want the .22LR & 17 HMR I'd go for the .243 & .22.
    My first application was for .22LR,
    22-250, & .243 with GMP. I was granted all but never purchased the
    22-250, I changed to .223 added a .308 & 2 x 17HMRs.
    If you can justify it and have no reason why an FAC should not be granted then go for it and challenge any refusal.
    ILB

  7. #7
    22WMR will do all that HMR will do, cheaper and with a bit more under the bonnet for Fox, .223 or .243 would be a good step up, if you have the possibility of Deer then .243 would be the logical caliber, in my experience TVP are not particularly bad as far as granting calibers as long as you can show good reason, they are however, hellaciously slow at the moment, so don't get your hopes up about getting this resolved in the near future. as far as HMR is concerned, I am not aware of any problems with it for Fox in TVP's area.
    "Politicians must be allowed to panic. They need activity. It is their substitute for achievement"
    "'The matter is under consideration' means we have lost the file. 'The matter is under active consideration' means we are trying to find the file."

  8. #8
    Many thanks everyone! It's all a bit of a grey area but wanted to know how to play things if it came to it. I really like the idea of a 243 but with no deer permission at the moment and none in the next 2 or 3 years they may not buy it. The .223 seemed like a good idea for foxes and long range rabbits and crows if the FEO wasn't keen on the HMR and was willing to grant me a .22CF.

    I've heard about the joys of TVP waits, they managed to sort a replacement SGC out in 10 days or so when I sent my disintegrated one back. Interestingly though, it did seem that it was the finance team that was slow?!?! Maybe there was a pig flying too.

    T

  9. #9
    Do you not feel that you might want to go on a paid stalk, at some point for deer and with your own rifle, or you may even get lucky and be invited to shoot with a friend or even win a stalk from one of the generous chaps off here, it does happen every now and then I met a chap on Saturday that offer me a stalk the first time I've ever met him. All I'm saying is a .243 ticks all the boxes, you don't have to rush out and buy every gun you have a slot for, if I had my time again and actually did what you have done and asked advise I would'nt have bothered with a .223 and would of started off with a .243 from the start.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 09mutley05 View Post
    Do you not feel that you might want to go on a paid stalk, at some point for deer and with your own rifle, or you may even get lucky and be invited to shoot with a friend or even win a stalk from one of the generous chaps off here, it does happen every now and then I met a chap on Saturday that offer me a stalk the first time I've ever met him. All I'm saying is a .243 ticks all the boxes, you don't have to rush out and buy every gun you have a slot for, if I had my time again and actually did what you have done and asked advise I would'nt have bothered with a .223 and would of started off with a .243 from the start.
    Cheers for that! I'd be really keen for a .243, what I actually want. I had just assumed that TVP wouldn't be very happy to grant it on a first FAC. Thanks for the encouragement though, I suppose I do have a few people that might invite me out! Would they grant a .243 for vermin do you think?
    Many thanks though, nice to be encouraged to push the boat out a bit as I'm not very good at doing it myself!

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