calibre / rifle choice for 14yr old stalker?

Adamant

Well-Known Member
My son is about to turn 14 and will be applying for his own FAC (he's had the forms printed out for at least a year :lol:) so that he can legitimately stalk deer with me, with his own rifle. He's been shooting since he was old enough to hold the gun straight and is a safe and accomplished hunter in his own right, so I have no problem with supporting him in his application. He intends to ask for a .22LR for vermin shooting and a deer calibre. As we have access to Fallow and Red deer in addition to Roe and Muntjac, obviously it needs to be larger than .240

As I shoot a .270 - which is a bit fierce for him still - I'm not sure what calibres to look at for him. I'm not a massive fan of the .243 myself but it might be a good 'youth' calibre - not too much recoil to put him off or affect accuracy. I also thought 6.5x55 might be a good choice too - mild mannered but capable? Any other choices I should consider for his first C/F rifle

Lastly, given the above, what rifles should I look at? He's about 5'4" and fairly slender framed (doesn't take after his father :oops:) so it needs to be a light rifle with a compact build. I was thinking about the Remington Model Seven if calibre choice allows, but what other small rifles are out there?

Budget is flexible - not that he knows that - as I'd rather make the right choice rather than end up with a rifle that is a pig to shoot, thus risking putting him off.

Thanks,

Adam.
 
not sure what the prob is
even if the lad is a wuss
a moderator will compensate for that
if you don't like the .243 then look at a 25-06
personally i feel parents are often to over bearing in trying to get the right balance
but it is your money and choice after all
 
If you reload, you could make him gentle loads in kicky/barky calibres until he's used to it. Remington did make a 'managed recoil' range of cartridges, which might be of use. Anything to prevent the develeopment of flinch would be preferable to having to cure it once it has developed!

I'm not sure there'd be much to choose between .270 and .25-06, really, would there?
If on factory ammunition, .243 or 6.5x55 as the two wussiest UK deer all-rounders would seem the obvious ones, especially if a lightish rifle is in order.

A mod, as suggested, will make a great deal of difference; but having owned a .243 for a couple of years I now have a 6.5x55 Finnlight, and my experience is that the 6.5x55 is a pleasanter rifle to use, mod or no mod. Might just be the fit of the rifle, though - something else worth bearing in mind!
 
Adamant,

both my sons have shot my .243 wetherby. both at 100 yards have a 21/2 inch group. Its a case of what he will be able to carry. Neither can carry mine with the pes moderator on it. just too heavy.
The best suggestion i would have is take him to a store and find, first what he can carry and then let him shoot it.
No point picking a calibre he will not be able carry mate. there is a thread not long started with a couple of links to different models which are lighter.

good luck,
well done for introducing him at a young age,
my four year old daughter is furious every time i bring a deer home:rolleyes:

f.
 
Well I am going to play devils advocate here:- :evil:

My suggestions are three fold on cartidges suitable for him:-

6.5x55
7x57
.308

All three will give you the choice of bullet weights for any species in the UK and beyond. Most are available in a wide range of rifles including the Model 7 ( :rolleyes:Yuk) but anyway if it were me once the rifle had been picked for the right calibre/chambering I would then have the stock cut to suit his build making sure that spacers could be added later to lengthen it as he grows in stature.

Now I don't have anything against other cartridges but I feel these three will do it all all three will shoot bullets of 110 grains and more. The 123/125/130 grain bullets in teh .308 perform well and to start you can reduce the load slightly then increase as he grows used to it. H4895 is a good powder for this use ;).

Oh how I wish Dad had an interest in shooting and hunting. He's a lucky lad.
 
trouble is that you cant go on recoil.if you are shooting reds you have to use a capable calibre.Really dont mean to be rude here but you have to use a calibre that is suitable to the quarry you are after..243 is fine for recoil but not the prefered choice for reds as stated by others already would go bit larger calibre. go for larger calibre moderated and maybe heavier rifle if he is of slighter build
 
Just a couple of random thoughts, not sure if they add anything to the discussion.

1. Don't Ruger make a youth rifle? (Hawkeye compact 16.5inch barrel). Remington make a compact rifle especially for young people, though personally I dislike the make, but that's my personal preference. Howa also make a compact rifle called I believe the ranchland but I am not sure if this is available in the U.K.


2. I hear that 7mm 08 is an effective but lightly recoiling round.
 
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You have brought a tear to this jaded eye Mr Adamant.

The young lad needs a rifle, for his .22 may I suggest he try my Walther the next time I am down. It's perfect for my little brother who is about the same size as your youngest.

As for the deer rifle, I remember some remarks you made a little while ago.....30.06 for the boy I take it? :lol:
 
All good advice.

He's not a wuss, but the kind of recoil we happily absorb may well be an issue for someone smaller - I find it hard to judge as I'm 6'1", 18 stone, built like a brick outhouse and like large calibre rifles. Regarding Stone's comment about being an overbearing parent, surely making sure he has a well fitted rifle that's a pleasure to use isn't being unduly overbearing. I'm more than happy to allow the boy to make his own choices within the limitations of the budget but let's face it - he's 13, going on 14, so he's most likely to point to the custom AR15 with go-faster picatinny rails and tactical laser as his rifle of choice...

The size of the rifle is important because, as someone wisely pointed out, he's got to carry the damned thing himself - I'm his father rather than his ghillie, and if he wants to stalk, he has to lug his own kit (although I might help drag his prize stag out for him ;)). So, even when tamed with a light moderator like the alloy CCM, it has still got to be a manageable package; for the same reason I wouldn't enjoy carrying my 17lb foxing rig around a Scottish hill. Thats why I was looking at the Model Seven, as even allowing for the appalling standard trigger, it's a really compact rifle. However, I'd be delighted to pick up a nice wooden stocked Parker Hale or BSA and chop the stock down for him a bit, particularly if I can shorten the barrel a tad to keep it balance.

I've used 6.5x55 so I'm aware of its potential but I've never owned a .308 and never fired a 7x57 - I reload four calibres already, so adding another is no hardship. I agree that this offers an opportunity to soft load for him - I must admit I havent tried many slow loads in my .270, so perhaps I'll do that before dismissing that calibre out of hand for him. I load mine fairly hot so he struggles with it a little, much preferring my .223 in use.

I think a good wander around the gun racks at the CLA is in order, letting him try stuff for size, and if anyone reasonably local has some of the above calibres they'd let him try, drop me a PM.

Cheers,

Adam.
 
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We could always load my rifle down to .308 levels if you want to cover that base Adam.

Why not get yourself and the boy down to Bisley at some point?
 
You have brought a tear to this jaded eye Mr Adamant.

The young lad needs a rifle, for his .22 may I suggest he try my Walther the next time I am down. It's perfect for my little brother who is about the same size as your youngest.

As for the deer rifle, I remember some remarks you made a little while ago.....30.06 for the boy I take it? :lol:

Without wishing to distract from my sensible thread...

I would have suggested .30-06 but I'm trying to avoid him acquiring a debilitating flinch like the one you display when firing said rifle, even though you're in denial about your condition (Trevor says) - if only your father had cared like I do, you would be a strapping young man with a decent fashion sense, instead of an indolent jumble sale casualty. By the way, did you just say 'LOL'? Mate, you is well street, innit? And anyway, I said .30-06 was for elderly aunts and invalids - No.2 son is neither of those.

I have our flight details if you'd care to call me this morning - Africa is calling, ah wim ba weh, ah wim ba weh...(I've narrowed my quarry list down to honey badger, ostrich, baboon and possibly a vervet monkey if I can borrow the PH's .600 Nitro Express)

A.
 
Without wishing to distract from my sensible thread...

I would have suggested .30-06 but I'm trying to avoid him acquiring a debilitating flinch like the one you display when firing said rifle, even though you're in denial about your condition (Trevor says) - if only your father had cared like I do, you would be a strapping young man with a decent fashion sense, instead of an indolent jumble sale casualty. By the way, did you just say 'LOL'? Mate, you is well street, innit? And anyway, I said .30-06 was for elderly aunts and invalids - No.2 son is neither of those.

LOL?

LOL?!

No sir, you shall be hearing from my second.

I have our flight details if you'd care to call me this morning - Africa is calling, ah wim ba weh, ah wim ba weh...(I've narrowed my quarry list down to honey badger, ostrich, baboon and possibly a vervet monkey if I can borrow the PH's .600 Nitro Express)

A.


Excellent, I got the same email from Kiri yesterday.

That's a good list to have, I'm working on more varmints for you. ;)
 
Although not in posession of one now, I'd think a .308 would do the job very well, reasonably tame recoil, enough bullet choice to cover all your Deer species and common enough to find a vast amount of makes/models new and second hand in RFD's.

TJ
 
Adam, as is often the case, we all tend to over complicate things!

I would have thought that the obvious choice was for your lad to apply for his own .243 win and .22lr and also have your .270 win on his FAC.

I know you have said that you are not a great fan of the .243 but there is no doubt that it is an ideal calibre for what you have described, you never know, once your boy starts beating you with it then you may come round to liking it!

As to choice of rifle, I wouldn't worry too much as youthful enthusiasum may well compensate for physical strength. The Rem Mod Seven may seem like a good choice but some seem to suffer a little from poor accuracy due to lightweight stocks etc, if you can try one before you buy then it would be worth looking at.

Scope choice is another can of worms, personally I would go for a 3-12 or 4-14 variable for general UK stalking but I'm sure others would advocate a fixed 6 or 8 as a lads first scope.

Its important that he is happy with his set-up and gets confident with it. I would also try to keep him off this website until he gets a bit of experience of his own or his head will explode with all the different opinions and views.

Do the BDS or BASC do any range days in your area? this would be a good place to look at and handle other peoples rifles without any sales pitch.

JC
 
All good advice.

He's not a wuss, but the kind of recoil we happily absorb may well be an issue for someone smaller - I find it hard to judge as I'm 6'1", 18 stone, built like a brick outhouse and like large calibre rifles. Regarding Stone's comment about being an overbearing parent, surely making sure he has a well fitted rifle that's a pleasure to use isn't being unduly overbearing. I'm more than happy to allow the boy to make his own choices within the limitations of the budget but let's face it - he's 13, going on 14, so he's most likely to point to the custom AR15 with go-faster picatinny rails and tactical laser as his rifle of choice...

The size of the rifle is important because, as someone wisely pointed out, he's got to carry the damned thing himself - I'm his father rather than his ghillie, and if he wants to stalk, he has to lug his own kit (although I might help drag his prize stag out for him ;)). So, even when tamed with a light moderator like the alloy CCM, it has still got to be a manageable package; for the same reason I wouldn't enjoy carrying my 17lb foxing rig around a Scottish hill. Thats why I was looking at the Model Seven, as even allowing for the appalling standard trigger, it's a really compact rifle. However, I'd be delighted to pick up a nice wooden stocked Parker Hale or BSA and chop the stock down for him a bit, particularly if I can shorten the barrel a tad to keep it balance.

I've used 6.5x55 so I'm aware of its potential but I've never owned a .308 and never fired a 7x57 - I reload four calibres already, so adding another is no hardship. I agree that this offers an opportunity to soft load for him - I must admit I havent tried many slow loads in my .270, so perhaps I'll do that before dismissing that calibre out of hand for him. I load mine fairly hot so he struggles with it a little, much preferring my .223 in use.

I think a good wander around the gun racks at the CLA is in order, letting him try stuff for size, and if anyone reasonably local has some of the above calibres they'd let him try, drop me a PM.

Cheers,

Adam.

It's a damn shame your the other side of the country or you could happily try them outand sadly I cannot get over to your side in the forseeable future. You did mention BSA and I happened to have been shown a quite nice one the other week at Mr Kershaws. It was a Majestic but has been, how shall we say customised. It's a 7x57 as I recall with a new barrel fitted by Callum Fergersin and bedded in devon from the look of it sadly he free floated the barrel and to me it looks wrong with that big gap around the barrel :doh: but that's the modern way. The stock was quite nice too walnut still not plastic. he did tell me the price and I think it was around £500 but was not really listening as it was not for me plus I already have three rifles in the queue if the Plod will get their fingers out wiht the variations.

Now you mention weight ........................... what is the goal weight wise?
 
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